The U.S and the wrold

[Soulforged]

It wasnt too long ago that the whole world went to hell and America was one of the last bastions of freedom and normalcy.

Oh i see. . Sure go USA.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Before people go off on a rant, if you include private aid which I've seen estimates at ~twice the level of public aid, that still puts you nowhere near the top, and that is assuming that only the US has private aid.

I believe our private aid is considerably more than double our public aid. I think more like 10 times.

[Productivity]

I believe our private aid is considerably more than double our public aid. I think more like 10 times.

If we work on ~$19B of public aid, I'm struggling to work out where the other $160B of private aid is coming from given that only ~$34B of private aid can actually be detected.

http://www.techcentralstation.com/082102N.html

Indeed, when making an attempt to adjust for how useful the aid is, the US consistently ranks at the bottom of the pile.

http://www.cgdev.org/files/3646_file_WP_67_Revised.pdf

I'm not trying to bash the US here, just don't kid yourself about how great your aid really is.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

“Private international giving by Americans is over three and one-half times that of U.S. government foreign assistance,” Adelman told participants in the Internet chat. “When you take into account this U.S. private giving, our foreign assistance far exceeds other countries by any measure.”

She has estimated that U.S. private international giving to the developing world exceeds $62 billion.

Addressing questions concerning American giving abroad, Adelman called the standard measure of U.S. foreign assistance “outdated” and “flawed.” The standard measure of foreign aid, which ranks the United States last in terms of the percentage of its Gross National Income, grossly underestimates the total amount of U.S. foreign assistance, she said.

LINK

[Papewaio]

Adelman also includes Foreign workers sending money back home as foreign aid.

In fact for 2003 half of the private aid that she listed was from Foreign workers remittances,

[Productivity]

“Private international giving by Americans is over three and one-half times that of U.S. government foreign assistance,”

So will you revise the following down to 3.5 instead of 10?

I believe our private aid is considerably more than double our public aid. I think more like 10 times.

ddressing questions concerning American giving abroad, Adelman called the standard measure of U.S. foreign assistance “outdated” and “flawed.” The standard measure of foreign aid, which ranks the United States last in terms of the percentage of its Gross National Income, grossly underestimates the total amount of U.S. foreign assistance, she said.

Ok, so let's assume that total US aid is 4.5 times that of it's public aid (ie. 3.5public aid + 1public aid). That puts the US in the position of giving 0.72 of it's GDP as aid. Great, good number, good level etc. However, it is still not the highest level in teh world, as SFTS had previously asserted. There are still at least five countries giving more in public aid alone, than the US is giving throuh public aid combined with private aid.

The only time the US manages to come top is in absolute numbers, which quite frankly it should. It's the worlds largest economy by a long way. I'm not meaning to bash the US, it's just the original assertion by SFTS is incorrect in anything other than a useless measure.

[PanzerJaeger]

I'm not trying to bash the US here, just don't kid yourself about how great your aid really is.

Do we or do we not give the most aid of any country in the world? It seems like you are saying 1 billion swedish(or whomever) dollars are somehow better than 10 billion american dollars because of GDP comparisons. Money, grain, aid is aid. No amount of comparisons changes that basic fact.

There's a saying here in America that doesnt really make sense to me, but its sort of funny. "Dont look a gift horse in the mouth."

Considering how much "the world", which the US is so often excluded from, hates the US, they are lucky to get anything at all.

Of course the american guilt complex, as Aenlic demonstrated, will always force us to collectively feel guilty about living a good life - therefore compelling us to throw more money at people who hate us.

[Roark]

PJ: The "gift horse" adage comes from the fact that, historically, one way of checking a horse's health was to examine its teeth.

So they're effectively saying "don't quibble over the details, just accept the gift".

As the richest country in the world, it is simply appropriate that a democratic country like the US would also be the no. 1 provider of foreign aid.

[Goofball]

Do we or do we not give the most aid of any country in the world? It seems like you are saying 1 billion swedish(or whomever) dollars are somehow better than 10 billion american dollars because of GDP comparisons.

You're missing the point Panzer. I haven't checked the numbers, but I'll take your word for it that the U.S. gives the most in absolute terms.

But here is a little analogy for you:

Let's say my house burns down so my neighbors all take up a collection to build me a new one. One of my neighbors is a really rich guy, earning $1,000,000 per year, but the other nine people on my block are average joes earning $50,000 per year. The rich guy gives me $25,000 towards a new home, and the other nine neighbors each give me $5,000.

The $25,000 the rich guy gave me is definitely the most important donation out of the ten.

However, I would be much more appreciative of the $5,000 given by the others as that required more sacrifice of them.

Having said all of that, it would also be extremely bad manners (if not downright hurtful) for me to point this out to the rich guy.

[Adrian II]

The $25,000 the rich guy gave me is definitely the most important donation out of the ten.

However, I would be much more appreciative of the $5,000 given by the others as that required more sacrifice of them.

Having said all of that, it would also be extremely bad manners (if not downright hurtful) for me to point this out to the rich guy.

Now add this: the rich guy demands that you spend those $25.000 uniquely on products of his company.

And add this: he demands that you use all the money given (that from the others as well) to hire hands from his company to do things that you could do all by yourself, with your own hands, and for free!

Would you still be grateful?

[L'Impresario]

This isn't though the whole picture and surely the USA aren't the only ones to blame. The above analogy holds some truth for most western nations (with some bright exceptions I might add).

As I 've written in an older thread regarding aid being wasted - allow me to repeat myself:

Well if you wish to know why such amounts of money aren't used efficiently(and the majority isn't for free, they are just nice loans with usually only a 25-30% donation part, they include managment costs, aid to immigrants during their first year away from home as well as scholarships to students who study in the donating country, many of them not going to ever return to their land) then the main problems are these:
1. corruption.
2. countries not in need of aid do claim portions of it that's much needed elsewhere (the USA offers a considerable amount of aid to Israel, Russia and Egypt, while the EU offers more money to Poland than to Asia and Southern America combined).
3. aid that boosts exports and some of the donating countries' companies (with studies showing that blocking competition leads in a 25% extra-cost , with cases like in Mozambique where drugs were bought 50% higher than in market prices).
4. a large aid portion ,designated as technical aid (25% in 1999) is dependant on an incredibly large number of advisors from the donating coutnries. The costs and salaries of these people consume about 70% of the "technical aid" budget.
5. lack of coordination. Duplication of the same researches and projects is experienced many times, with money and time being thrown out of the window, granted tho that coordination between so many different "players" is difficult.

And this is only one side of the issue. Nevertheless, millions of people have benefited from ODA, but a lot potiental has been wasted as well.

[Proletariat]

Would you still be grateful?

They're more than welcome to turn down this burdensome aid we dole out. More than welcome.

[Soulforged]

Now add this: the rich guy demands that you spend those $25.000 uniquely on products of his company.

And add this: he demands that you use all the money given (that from the others as well) to hire hands from his company to do things that you could do all by yourself, with your own hands, and for free!

Would you still be grateful?

Well that's as normal as human compassion. And it's called greed. I'll not blame anybody for this, but you can't just bother others for the rest of their lives only because you helped them, you had the option of not helping them if you wanted.