The U.S and the wrold

**Aurelian** · 09-01-2005, 14:35

No, that wasn't aimed at you. I was just pointing out that the thread is a little early. Most of the stories about aid from other countries are just starting to pop up, and they all mention that they're waiting on, or working with, the Feds to see what is needed.

**Aenlic** · 09-01-2005, 15:08

Timing has a lot to do with things as well. While not entirely accurate, the old law of threes is still a decent guildeline. A human can survive (on average) 3 minutes without oxygen, 3 hours without warmth, 3 days without water and 3 weeks without food. We're hitting the 3 days limit right now. People are going to begin dying now as a result of lack of fresh water; or else they'll succumb to temptation and drink contaminated water and end up the victim of poisoning or disease.

In light of the above, there isn't much that foreign aid can do in this situation. Even the ships leaving Norfolk (the Iwo Jima and a couple of amphibious dock ships) and Baltimore (the hospital ship Comfort) won't reach the area in time to mitigate the fresh water crisis. Foreign aid might help later in the process, when more access to affected areas is available; but by then the U.S. has the resources necessary to do the same job quicker on its own. I think it will merely be a situation of the U.S. not asking for additional aid; because it doesn't need the aid. They'll most certainly still offer the aid, however.

Those who are making claims of "we helped them, but they won't help us" are just engaging in typical American arrogance, chest-thumping and melodrama. It isn't in the least bit true.

**Slyspy** · 09-01-2005, 19:47

I rather suspect that most countries and agencies will wait to be asked in this case. Firstly the wealth and resources of the USA should be able to deal with all but the most technical aspects. Secondly there was much criticism after the tsunami that aid was disorganised, poorly selected and badly distributed. This was mainly due to the lack of aformentioned cash, resources and infrastructure in the stricken countries but also due to their lack of a suitably organised central authority to coordinate the relief efforts.

**Don Corleone** · 09-01-2005, 19:56

Originally Posted by Aenlic

Those who are making claims of "we helped them, but they won't help us" are just engaging in typical American arrogance, chest-thumping and melodrama. It isn't in the least bit true.

That's a bit harsh. I think what SftS was trying to say was there was a tone of sympathy for victims of other disasters that seems to be lacking here. I disagree with his views, as it would seem from the backroom alone, those without sympathy are a distinct minority. But when something is that offensive, it carries a lot more volume than the simple of number of voices would indicate.

That being said, yes, I totally agree. There's really nothing anybody can do that isn't already being done. Well, one exception. I would give those additional national guard units 'shoot to kill' orders for whoever these snipers are that are shooting at evacuation/rescue parties. Am I the only one that's beginning to suspect these snipers aren't locals?

**_Martyr_** · 09-01-2005, 20:03

People are sniping evacuation teams? WTF? Thats pretty sick! WHo do you think they are?

**Don Corleone** · 09-01-2005, 20:05

Well, call me a paranoid, crackpot psycho, but we haven't exactly guarded our borders very tightly for the past 4 years. I'm not claiming I have any proof or that my mind is made up or anything. I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a terrorist cell headed down to the Big Easy once a confirmed hit by Katrina was known.

**_Martyr_** · 09-01-2005, 20:11

I dont know? It seems a little tinfoil-hattish to start pointing at terrorists... no? I would say more sick weirdos a la the Washington Snipers or something like that.

And what do you mean you havent been guarding your boarders well?? You obviously havent tried getting through US immigration recently... even on an Irish passport. Pretty extreme.

**Don Corleone** · 09-01-2005, 20:17

Originally Posted by _Martyr_

I dont know? It seems a little tinfoil-hattish to start pointing at terrorists... no? I would say more sick weirdos a la the Washington Snipers or something like that.

And what do you mean you havent been guarding your boarders well?? You obviously havent tried getting through US immigration recently... even on an Irish passport. Pretty extreme.

I know it sounds tin-foil hattish. I just cannot come up with a good reason for large numbers of snipers. Two or three, sure, but from the sounds of it, they're popping up all over the city, and are pretty well coordinated. I just don't know what to think, and honestly, an Al Queda cell is less scary then believing large numbers of Americans could be so cruel and stupid.

And I said we weren't doing a good job of it, not that we weren't doing it at all. The appearance of doing something is much, much more important than doing what needs to be done, when it comes to this issue. The problem you're facing is that you're actually following our laws. The same laws that tell the TSA they have to search an elderly woman in a wheelchair at the exact same rate as a man flying in from Syria with no permanent address given upon arrival. If you want to get into the USA without any difficulty, simply fly to Mexico or Canada first, then hike/drive/boat on in.

**Red Harvest** · 09-01-2005, 20:25

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Well, call me a paranoid, crackpot psycho, but we haven't exactly guarded our borders very tightly for the past 4 years. I'm not claiming I have any proof or that my mind is made up or anything. I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a terrorist cell headed down to the Big Easy once a confirmed hit by Katrina was known.

If so, they have a rapid response efficiency that far outstrips our own nation's. Just getting to the levies during/after the storm would have been nearly impossible.Why send in terrorists to do what the storm would do for them? Doesn't make sense.

Those levies shouldn't have held. Katrina's drift to the East saved them, and that was in the last few hours when travel was not possible. I was SHOCKED (and relieved) to hear that they had not failed during the initial surge. I honestly believed New Orleans was going to completely flood during the storm, with about 100,000+ casualties, instead they were on the weak side of the storm.

We got lucky, the hit should have been much worse. You are being fooled by the focus on New Orleans. That is just part of the picture. Whole communities all around no longer exist. While many of the people survived there are no homes. Some of these were communities of 20,000+.

**Don Corleone** · 09-01-2005, 20:43

You're misunderstanding my point Red. I know things are as bad, if not worse East of New Orleans. Hell, I think they announced "Biloxi is no more". There's a lot of damage & casualties we haven't even begun to hear of yet. In this thread, I was speaking specificially about the snipers blocking the relief efforts. Who would do such a thing? Sadly and quite frighteningly, it seems that they're growing in number. As I said, maybe Al Queda is a boogeyman I'm using that's a lot less scary than the truth.

**yesdachi** · 09-01-2005, 20:49

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

but we haven't exactly guarded our borders very tightly for the past 4 years.

Our borders have never been guarded tightly. If anything they have been guarded tighter over that past 4 years than ever before.

**Don Corleone** · 09-01-2005, 20:52

Correct Yesdachi (cool name btw, took me a while to get it). We are doing better then we were before. But we are still a LONG, LONG way from good. They estimate that 35,000 illegal immigrants enter the country every month. Are you willing to bet your health & livelihood on the belief that America's enemies haven't figured this out yet?