Who rightfully owns the Falkland Isles?

[Soulforged]

A bit of history (copied from Wikipedia) :

1504: Amerigo Vespucci (Florence/Spain)

1520: Esteban Gómez (Spain)

1540: Ferdinand Camargo (Spain)

1592: John Davis (England)

1593: Richard Hawkins (England)

1600: Sebald de Weert (Netherlands) 1684: Cowley & Dampier (England) discovered Pepys Island, renamed South Georgia by James Cook in 1775.

1690: John Strong (England) landed, and named the sound and eventually the entire island group after Viscount Falkland, Admiralty Commissioner

1764: Louis de Bougainville (France) founded a naval base at Port Louis, East Falkland. The French named them the Îles Malouines.

1765: John Byron (Great Britain) established a base at Port Egmont, West Falkland in 1765.

Here's the main problem. Who discovered it? Anyway i would not give such an importance to this.

1767: France sold its base to Spain.

So it rightfully now is spanish property, therefore of the Virreynato.

1770: Spain declared war on Great Britain in a fight over the islands.

1771: That dispute was settled, with Spain retaining East Falkland and Great Britain West Falkland (until 1774).

So our ancestors kept one of the islands.

1774: The British abandoned Port Egmont but left behind a nice shiny plaque saying the islands were under continuing British dominion

Well this doesn't say anything. But the before sure does.

1776: Spain ruled the islands as part of the Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata after 1776.

Our legacy.

1816: The United Provinces of the River Plate, later called Argentina, gained independence from Spain

Thus gaining rights over the islands. Or at least one of them.

1820: Argentina proclaimed sovereignty over the islands. The Argentine frigate, the Heroina, was sent to the islands to take possession of them. Argentina set up a penal colony on them.

If what you posted is true, then we didn't simply claim rights over them, we actually had rights over one of them.

1825: The United Kingdom recognized Argentina's independence from Spain.

So your empire said anything about our little country taking them.

1829: Argentina named Luis Vernet as the islands' governor. After a dispute over fishing rights with an United States vessel, the Argentine authorities arrested and detained the vessel´s captain. The US responded by shelling the island, destroying the main settlements.

How tipical...thus creating an excuse to their main allies to attack us.

1833: The United Kingdom invaded the islands and expelled the Argentines, but Argentina maintained its claim.

One is ours at least, you cannot deny that.

1965: United Nations Resolution 2065 called upon Britain and Argentina to proceed without delay with negotiations with a view to finding a peaceful solution to the problem bearing in mind the interests of the population of the Falkland Islands.

There's never a negotiation, Britain always uses the veto power that they've and we not.

1982: Various tensions, but mainly the desire of the Argentine military junta to distract attention from domestic economic and political ills, led to an Argentine invasion. The islands were later retaken by the UK.

Right, our politicians were falling from the 13 floor and tried to grab something. Many argentinians and many british died for no reason. Still Margaret Tatcher was rewarded didn't she?
So the conclusion is that we own one of the islands at least.

On the other hand. The Malvinas have a terrain with a lay of a material that will become petro-oil in time. So there's some economic dispute over it.

Our law sais that the Malvinas belong to us. England adquiered the two by force. So who has right.

[Reverend Joe]

France. They founded the first outpost there, and even though they sold it to Spain, they were still first.

Also, they are a neutral party, and thus are a good way to put an end to this needless bickering over a few useless, rocky islands.

Speaking of which, I wouldn't mind if Russia took Alaska back from us (the US).

[Soulforged]

Incorrect. If you sell something to somebody then it's property of who bought it.

[Reverend Joe]

Actually, I am really just looking for an excuse to get rid of Alaska. And to settle this conflict without either party (Argentina or UK) gaining anything. Another Treaty of Versailles, if you will.

[Soulforged]

Actually, I am really just looking for an excuse to get rid of Alaska. And to settle this conflict without either party (Argentina or UK) gaining anything. Another Treaty of Versailles, if you will.

The conflict will never be settled unless that the UN grant us more power. But the better end will be the two islands for us. Period.

[Reverend Joe]

I was just joking. I know full well that this crap is gonna keep going on and on and on, because neither side will relent. Even if Argentina gets the islands, Britain will continue to insist that they are theirs, and eventually they may take them back by force.

Lighten up, man- we're all knee-deep in the bull****; we may as well keep laughing.

[Papewaio]

Surely the way it helped displace the Junta means that Argentinians owe the Brits?

the Argentine military government was ousted after mounting protests by human rights and war veterans groups. Galtieri was forced to resign, paving the way for the restoration of democracy. Elections were held on October 30, 1983 and Raúl Alfonsín, the Radical Civic Union (UCR) party candidate, took office on December 10, 1983. Alfonsín defeated Italo Luder, the candidate for the Justicialist Party (Peronist movement).

[bmolsson]

Can't it be independent ?

[Soulforged]

I know you're joking man.
I thought it was funny seeing and USA man on the contrary side of the british.

[Soulforged]

Surely the way it helped displace the Junta means that Argentinians owe the Brits?

This must be a joke right...or is it another of those stupid statements trying to justify a war. If the comission of the Human Rights had been sent before non of this would've happened. We don't owe nothing to the british. They tried to invade continental lands in 1816, with no right on it, and tried to get on it again later by claiming some continental ground near Tierra del Fuego like theirs. From where do they get those ideas? I'll guess that it's the last breath of an ancient empire, who cannot leave aside the olde ways. But it's just my guess.

[Soulforged]

Can't it be independent ?

I'm not on the side of nationalism, it appears to be a decent proposal. But neither my government (or my people in general) nor the british will like it.

[sharrukin]

This must be a joke right...or is it another of those stupid statements trying to justify a war. If the comission of the Human Rights had been sent before non of this would've happened. We don't owe nothing to the british. They tried to invade continental lands in 1816, with no right on it, and tried to get on it again later by claiming some continental ground near Tierra del Fuego like theirs. From where do they get those ideas? I'll guess that it's the last breath of an ancient empire, who cannot leave aside the olde ways. But it's just my guess.

The Falkland Islands have 2,900+ people on it and they wish to remain British.

Does Spain have the right to occupy Argentina as one of their colonies despite the wishes of the people?

If not, then Argentina has no right to occupy the Falklands despite the wishes of its people.

[Papewaio]

You do understand the term tongue in cheek right?

From where do they get those ideas? I'll guess that it's the last breath of an ancient empire, who cannot leave aside the olde ways. But it's just my guess.

Man that breath must have been some bad halitosis.

====

Was a treaty signed after the Falkland war? Or was it just a surrender with no terms?

[Soulforged]

You do understand the term tongue in cheek right?

No. I just understand basic english, not frases like that. But enlighten me please.

And talking about treaties:link (in spanish)

I'll make an scheme:
-XVI: The europeans travel to America. The Papacy established "all those island and firm lands, found or to be found, discovered and to be discovered, to the west and to the middle day" will be property of Spain. Then this makes the Malvinas property of Spain, even if the discoverer was british (though it's discused).
-1670: By the treaty of Madrid it's agreed that all lands that the british already possesed in North America will be of Britain. While they shouldn't commerce or fish in those lands owned by the Catolic King.
-1690: John Strong is hitted by an storm and he names the islands "Falkland" for the first time.
-1713: The treaty of Ultrech is signed. The british compromise themselves to return all lands in dispute to Felipe V (Phillip V).
-1748: England sends an expedition to the islands. The spanish opose. The british retreat recognicing a tacit but categoric rights of Spain over the islands.
-1764: King Luis XV (Louis XV, i suppouse) sends an expedition to the islands, wich creates the port of Saint Louis in the oriental Malvina. The spanish protested, the king retreated from the lands recognicing the spanish rights over them, but ordering them to pay for all the expenditures they've invested.
-1765: England sends a clandestine expedition leaded by John Byron. The spanish realize of this usurpation and destroy their outpost. From there to 1811 the spanish dominated continiously the islands. This is the list of the sovereings that ruled the island in the name of spain:Ramón Carassa (1777), Salvador de Medina (1779), Jacinto de Mtolaguirre (1781), Fulgencio Montemayor (1783), Agustín Figueroa (1784), Pedro de Mesa y Castro (1786), Ramón Clairac (1787), Pedro de Mesa y Castro (1788), Ramón Clairac (1789), Juan José de Elizalde (1790), Pedro Pablo Sanguineto (1791), Juan José de Elizalde (1792), Pedro Pablo Sanguineto (1793), Juan Aldana y Ortega (1794), Pedro Pablo Sanguineto (1795), Juan Aldana y Ortega (1796), Luis de Medina y Torres (1797), Francisco Xavier de Viana (1800), Ramón Fernández de Villegas (1801), Bernardo Bonavia (1803), Antonio Leal de Ibarra (1803), Bernardo Bonavia (1804), Antonio Leal de Ibarra (1805), Bernardo Bonavía (1806), J. C. Martínez (1807), Gerardo Bordas (1810) y Pablo Guillén (1810).
-1820: London recognices the independence of the United Provinces of River Plate (Provincias Unidas del Río de la Plata, surging from the ancient name of the Virroalcy, now called Argentina (the silvered, made of silver, because of the river rich in silver on those times)
-1825: And even signs a traty of Friendship, Commerce and Navegation with us. In neither of the traties they made a claim over our historic lands, and we took politic control over them on 1820 (10 of June), and also over others islands. The 6 of November of the same year the argentinian flag was rised for the first time on the island, thus confirming our inherated rights over them.
-1829: Luis Vernet was designed the first argentinian governor of the islands and forbids all fishing. The british protest when he orders to stop an USA ship that had transpased the law (the "Breakwater"). The USA consul protested and menaced with taking hostile actions, he supported his decision with the military ship the USS Lexington. The ship destroyed all military settlements and took many habitants like hostages, then it retired declaring that there was no government on the island. Thus begins the eternal conflict.
-1832: Buenos Aires designed a new military leader, and sent the ARA Sarandí (a cannon ship), to repare the damage and restablish order. Thus the second governor was stablished, but then when the ship returned to continental port, the garrison revolted and killed the governor. Then the ship returned and tried to stop the revolting. At the same time the HMS Clio (military ship of England) sent to consolidate the british sovereingty over the islands, taken advantage of the desorder caused by the USS Lexington.
1833- The captain of the Clio informed the captain of the Sarandí (Pinedo) that the british flag will be rised on the next day replacing the argentinian. The captain disagree but could not respond because of the british superiority. Thus he took some all "criminals" on the prison in the island, and some (but not all) citizens.

Said all this demonstrates that the rights of Argentina over the Malvinas are a great debt of the international community to our people. We hope some day, not by means of war, but peace and diplomacy get them back.

[Papewaio]

Tongue in cheek:

Meant or expressed ironically or facetiously. ie a joke.

[bmolsson]

Tongue in cheek:

Meant or expressed ironically or facetiously. ie a joke.

Wouldn't that require that you also have a sense of humor ??

[Papewaio]

Wouldn't that require that you also have a sense of humor ??

Hence the irony as I have no humour.

[Aurelian]

The sheep. They have an overwhelming majority.

[Soulforged]

The Falkland Islands have 2,900+ people on it and they wish to remain British.

Does Spain have the right to occupy Argentina as one of their colonies despite the wishes of the people?

If not, then Argentina has no right to occupy the Falklands despite the wishes of its people.

Not you're wrong. Behind this exist all a matter of titles, so is not that simple. Besides you ignored all history.

[Papewaio]

What does the last treaty say?

[Soulforged]

What does the last treaty say?

I really don't know. I'm reading on this moment the arguments that are proposed by both parts. And if what the treaty sais doesn't matter because the question has some history, and Britain itself violated previous treaties. I'll be posting the conclusions some time soon (if anybody wants to read them ).

[English assassin]

History, shmistory. About the best claim to sovereignty in international law comes from effective occupation. The Falkland Islands are occupierd by approximately 3000 people who call themselves and want to be British, and about 0 people who call themselves and want to be Argentinian.

Until that changes, y'all know what you can do with history and treaties and UN resolutions.

[Ja'chyra]

History, shmistory. About the best claim to sovereignty in international law comes from effective occupation. The Falkland Islands are occupierd by approximately 3000 people who call themselves and want to be British, and about 0 people who call themselves and want to be Argentinian.

Until that changes, y'all know what you can do with history and treaties and UN resolutions.

Lol.

The islands are owned by Britain and occupied by British, that makes them ours.

And let's face it, you couldn't take them back the last time you tried so what makes you think you could do it now?

[Duke Malcolm]

So it rightfully now is spanish property, therefore of the Virreynato.

Only the formerly French base...

Well this doesn't say anything. But the before sure does.

This says that the West Falklands are continuing British Territory

If what you posted is true, then we didn't simply claim rights over them, we actually had rights over one of them.

exactly, had being the operative word...

On the other hand. The Malvinas have a terrain with a lay of a material that will become petro-oil in time. So there's some economic dispute over it.

Our law sais that the Malvinas belong to us. England adquiered the two by force. So who has right.

Well our law says that the Falklands belong to us. In 1982, Argentina acquired the two by force. We have as much right as you, if not moreso, based on the fact the inhabitants of the island want to be remain a British territory.

[Aenlic]

It's pretty clear from the argument that the Falklands are in fact owned by the penguins, the cormorants, the ducks, the geese, the herons, the seagulls, the sealions, the seals and all the rest of the flora and fauna on the islands - but one. The only problem denizens appear to be the intransigent, argumentative, self-proclaimed "evolved" hominids. So boths sides should just pack up and leave the islands to the more sensible species to go on about their lives.

[Reverend Joe]

That doesn't sound so bad. Hell, let's do the same with Alaska.

[Slyspy]

The historic ownership of the Falklands is very difficult to establish with any certainty, although Britain's claim is rather weak.

However we currently own the Islands for two reasons:

a) We won the war. The fact that this victory led to the collapse of Argentina's military regime is a bonus.

b) The Islanders prefer us to any other suitors.

Much the same applies to Gibraltar only its proximity and genuine strategic value make it more valuable. The Goverment which gives up the Falklands may, if it is lucky, survive. I doubt the same could be said over Gib.

[Duke Malcolm]

Spain ceded sovereignty of Gibraltar to us in a Treaty, slightly different from the Falklands situation. Britain has as much claim as any other over the islands

[ShadesPanther]

The Falklands is like my country basically. So I believe that the Land is owned by the poeple on the islands. The majority (Well in falklands is overwelming ) want to be British and so Britain allows them to be British and thus owns the falklands with the people will.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I mean that Greenland should belong to us and not those danish..

There's a country up there called "Canada"...