Region Discount ideas

[bretwalda]

/OFF: Actually, Hungarian writing IS phonetic, just we have 44 sound to be pronounced and we have 26 latin letters to write it down. The way to do it: double letters (ly, ny, gy, sz, zs, ty, dz, cs) and one triple (dzs) give usually softer sounds while the accented wovels also give out different sound (é, á, í, ő, ú, ű, ö, ü, ó). They are not really accents but different sound, creating different word, meaning separate things: kerek, kerék, kérek mean competely different things.

/ON I like your ideas, might even include in a mod if you don't mind - when I have time to do it. My idea to have every province have a bonus in units as well.

[Marquis de Said]

If you're going to change the province bonuses for troops, might I suggest also a couple of things that I have done/plan to do to my vanilla game:

- make Almughavars buildable in Aragon, give them a bonus there and remove the bonus for Gungalleys (which is pretty useless since the Aragonese, Spanish and French can't build galleys)

- make Alan Mercenary Cavalry buildable in Khazar and Georgia. It is like the Almughavars a brilliantly fun unit to use, too good to leave in only as a mercenary.

- remove all the province bonuses for ships, since, if I understand correctly, they are of no real use. Your ships don't come out any better. Or does anyone have better information on this?

- remove bonuses for Chivalric/Gothic/Hospitaller Foot Knights OR make these units buildable. Otherwise the bonus goes to waste since plain Chivalric/Gothic/Hospitaller Knights don't benefit from it.

Just a couple of 0.02 ideas.

[bretwalda]

Very good ideas, indeed. I never played the French so I don't really have a clue what bonus they need or what bonus would be desirable... So keep it coming!

[Procrustes]

Just one thought re. bonuses and game balance.....

You can already get +1 valor anything-that-is-mounted just by building up the horse farms to the max - and you can do it without building up your castle tech. (I mean, the only prereq is 20% farms.)

I don't know how this may fit with your plans - but I know if I get a region that gives me +1 valor for say hobilars or szekely, then I'm going to build up my horse farmers there and turn them into v+2 without much trouble.

Best,

[bretwalda]

Just one thought re. bonuses and game balance.....

You can already get +1 valor anything-that-is-mounted just by building up the horse farms to the max - and you can do it without building up your castle tech. (I mean, the only prereq is 20% farms.)

I don't know how this may fit with your plans - but I know if I get a region that gives me +1 valor for say hobilars or szekely, then I'm going to build up my horse farmers there and turn them into v+2 without much trouble.

Best,

That is exactly that I do (in the stock VI game) with Turcoman Horses: v2 from Tripoli with Master Horse Breeder, with all available moral boosters I like to base my army on them. Fast, manuverable, can deliver a punch and even have arrows... sweet.

However this is not always available. Should the horsie base on Master Breeder or on Royal Palace you need the valor from the province.

Also you can get v2 with fort level but then the moral of these units will suck...

[EatYerGreens]

bretwalda,

there is a very relevant thread over in the modding forum but I think I encountered it as a result of a search and cannot remember the title, nor what search terms I used. If I find it again I'll stick in a link.


The main thrust of the thread was that, paradoxically, valour bonuses on units severely cripple the AI's ability to tech up its provinces properly. They got better results by modding OUT the valour bonuses altogether, or else by cross-linking the target unit to high level fortifications by making that adding that to the unit-build requirements.

The reasons why are complex but basically, the bonused unit becomes the main 'target' of tech development in that region. Funds permitting, the AI will follow the path towards it correctly. The big problem is that, having fulfilled the build requirements, it then brings all further development to a halt.

An example is the Master Horse breeder being achievable without requiring anything more sophisticated than wooden fort and improved farms. As a consequence, the AI may fail to construct the port and trader needed to get any trade benefit which is, coincidentally, available in that province.

So sticking bonuses everywhere disrupts the AI's tendency to properly advance its castles and have a RANGE of units to train. Instead it will develop only what it needs to get the bonused units and neglect everything else. This results in low-tech buildings and limited unit choice. The extra valour can count for nothing if their cavalry has it but they don't have enough infantry on hand to play the role they're designed for and cavlary can't meet those needs properly for themselves.

Experimentation proved that coupling Master Level training facilities to Citadel/Fortress level of castle ensured that the latter would at least get built at some stage and, during the times when the next castle level is simply too expensive for the faction, it will spend time upgrading its training facilities because they are affordable during that interim.

So, in short, dishing out province bonuses will help you, as the player but you may find the AI opposition disappointingly easy to overcome because it's become hide-bound into chasing after bonused units when they need balance and steadily improving quality in all of their unit types.

Two bonuses per province would be interesting but I think that thread expanded into talk of trials of doing this, only to find that the AI got it's priorities tied in knots and ended up stopping development completely.

[bretwalda]

That is sad to hear... so if I do it I will mess up my game playability...? And the more bonus I put in the worse the AI will be...? That is sad.

However the effect lessens if I give bonus to basic troops (those that do not require extensive building before being available). I mean Slav Javelingmen, Spearmen, Horsemen, Székely, Horse Archers and so on.

[Procrustes]

...

Also you can get v2 with fort level but then the moral of these units will suck...

Hi,

I don't think it will suck that bad - each point of valor that a unit has gives it two more moral points, so a valor two whatever has plus four moral. (The valor bonus you get from the general does not increase moral, though.) Add some churches, etc. and the moral goes up more.

Best,

[Deus Ex]

- remove all the province bonuses for ships, since, if I understand correctly, they are of no real use. Your ships don't come out any better. Or does anyone have better information on this?

IIRC command stars do make a difference in sea battles - and it seems to me (for example Venice) valour bonuses tend to cause more frequent 1 and 2 command star units to be created - but that could just be random...

DE