3rd of October closing in - Hotline for Turkey

[Petrus]

I wasn't aware EU membership was based on race.

Well, it is not and this is the main problem of the persons who want to put a veto on Turkey's adhesion.

Seeing the differences that exist between the different european peoples, it is absurd as Greece, for example, is much closer to Turkey on an ethnical basis than it is from Belgium.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

personally, I'm concerned that the EU's human rights laws will possibly destabilize Turkey and will allow the influence of the scary brand of Islam to flourish.

If you want an example of a once non-scary country that became a hotbed of that nasty type of Islam then you can look at Pakistan. I know Pakistan is not in the EU blahblahblah but it did go down that fundamentalist path quite swiftly. A couple of decades of free reign for the scaries and you may find Turkey a completely different place in 2020.

[Ja'chyra]

I'm more concerned with this statement

Yesterday 13:18
Edex
We joined EU on the May, last year. And now we can see, that there are many plusses and also a lot of minuses in it. Farmers now get some support from EU funds, but also price of fuel has risen about 80% in a year. And so on and so on. Lot of people moves to work black jobs in UK and other western Europe countries and for us thats not that bad, as they are not the cleverest part in most samples, so its more problem for countries where they go, not for us. So EU here has given oportunities to those who are educated and clever enough to use them, but it also made poorer those who allready had hard times.

We don't want your dross my friend, we've got enough of our own, mind you most of ours don't even want to work do you want them in return?

[Petrus]

personally, I'm concerned that the EU's human rights laws will possibly destabilize Turkey and will allow the influence of the scary brand of Islam to flourish.

If you want an example of a once non-scary country that became a hotbed of that nasty type of Islam then you can look at Pakistan. I know Pakistan is not in the EU blahblahblah but it did go down that fundamentalist path quite swiftly. A couple of decades of free reign for the scaries and you may find Turkey a completely different place in 2020.

That’s my point.

What makes the islamist ideology unable to reach power and to impose a religious based society in Turkey?

The army.

Is the military institution of a country an acceptable element to block the will of the people democratically expressed in European union?

No.

What will make impossible for Turkey to become a segregationist country once the army will be limited to it’s military task?

Nothing at the moment.


As long as Turkey has not found a way to remain a democratic country by democratic means, it shall remain outside of Europe and this cannot be negotiated.

[A.Saturnus]

What makes the islamist ideology unable to reach power and to impose a religious based society in Turkey?

The army.

That´s not necessarily a problem. You might note that in some EU member countries, it is possible to disallow certain political parties. In Germany for example. It is not possible in Germany for a political party to advocate communism or a fascist state. The same could be applied in Turkey. Political projects to undermine the secular nature of the state can be outlawed. And to achieve this the army may be used.

[LeftEyeNine]

RP and MSP were Islamic political parties which several times had the govermental power in political timeline of Turkey - under the leadership of the notorious politician Necmettin Erbakan.

They were all closed, Necmettin Erbakan was prohibited from his political rights. His comrade Recai Kutan opened the latest one - FP. The leader is still Necmettin Erbakan behind the curtains. Tayyip Erdogan was a member of RP once, he was a "pupil" of Erbakan.

You let them open, you can not prevent it since the party statute is literally democratic. But their actions blow their cover someday and the party is closed. The remnants open another one as soon as possible. This goes and on and on and on. It is also valid for the Kurdish parties who always were banned after their support to PKK being exposed.

I mean, they do not alreadily expose their ideal in their party statues, how can you ban ? Crime needs proof, nothing possible before as you know. Therefore as soon as they "exagerrate" their allowances as a party, they are closed.

Saturnus, sorry but your statement is far from being possible here.

[Byzantine Prince]

I believe you would be incorrect. Check out Byzantine Prince's comments - it smacks of racism far worse then what is in the United States, its just better hidden in polite language.

How is it racism, calling them what they are? The turksih guy posted right underneath me and agreed with me. We are not as PC in that area of the world as you are. We call things what they are.

[A.Saturnus]

How is it racism, calling them what they are? The turksih guy posted right underneath me and agreed with me. We are not as PC in that area of the world as you are. We call things what they are.

Calling them as they are is not racist. Saying that they can´t join because of their race - well, it would take a greater rhetorical genius than you to show that that isn´t racist.

[Byzantine Prince]

Calling them as they are is not racist. Saying that they can´t join because of their race - well, it would take a greater rhetorical genius than you to show that that isn´t racist.

I'm glad you admit that you are persuadable by rhetoric.
It makes my act of dismissing anything you say very easy.

It's called a European Union for a reason. Only European nation-states may enter, not one's that have invaded European soil.

[AntiochusIII]

Erm...just to make a point here. It seems some of our Turkish patrons may be offended by misinterpreting my earlier post in this thread. By no means I suggest that Istanbul is not a correct/proper name for the city. I am just suggesting that in a literary sense, Constantinople, though on the same location as Istanbul (okay, one was built on another's ruins) it is a different city.

Indeed, if I ever have the luck to visit the city I'd be glad to see beautiful Istanbul...

Though I am not well-versed in the affairs of Europe and cannot make a comment on whether or not Turkey should join the EU.

[LeftEyeNine]

It's called a European Union for a reason. Only European nation-states may enter, not one's that have invaded European soil.

So NAFTA is nonsense from the start, huh ? You know native Americans have no power on it, the founders are the invaders..

[LeftEyeNine]

AntiochusIII,

No problem.. I, very well, understand Greek patrons calling it Constantinopolis; because they have the history all of it. I am not offended anyway a Greek calling Constantinopolis instead of Istanbul. However, it's sometimes all about using the old name to reflect your fanaticism inside. Then this is annoying.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Constantinople was not destroyed after its conquest, was it? It just grew in another culture. I do not know if it was ruined but Fatih had his warriors stopped looting in a day, whereas it used to last 3 days in other conquests..

[Redleg]

So NAFTA is nonsense from the start, huh ? You know native Americans have no power on it, the founders are the invaders..

Now that is a great come back to Byzantine Prince's comment. Game set match to LeftEyeNine

[Byzantine Prince]

So NAFTA is nonsense from the start, huh ? You know native Americans have no power on it, the founders are the invaders..

They are no longer invaders because they formed their own states after the colonization. Also your point is completely invalid because the Indians who live in the US are US citizens, and they get the same rights as everyone else, which is not what the greeks in Turkey recieved at all. Your country is still one of the most openly racist countries there are.

[A.Saturnus]

I'm glad you admit that you are persuadable by rhetoric.

That is a consequence you have found for yourself.

It makes my act of dismissing anything you say very easy.
You should think hard about whether that´s good or bad for you.

It's called a European Union for a reason. Only European nation-states may enter, not one's that have invaded European soil.

Turkey is historically and culturally part of Europe. If the Turks are invaders, than we all are. The Neandertalers were here before us. It remains that basing political decisions on race is by definition racist.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

ANAL HISTORY ALERT:

Redleg: a large chunk of what is now Turkey had been Greek since long before the Roman/Greek invasions.

[Redleg]

ANAL HISTORY ALERT:

Redleg: a large chunk of what is now Turkey had been Greek since long before the Roman/Greek invasions.

Why thank you - I am somewhat ignorant on parts of European History - especially that of Turkish History (in fact almost all of Turkish History) - but it seems to me that you are not only confirming my statements - but adding even more strength to them.

[Byzantine Prince]

Turkey is historically and culturally part of Europe.

Not really. Historically they have arrived pretty late, about medieval times or late medieval times. Culturally they are nothing like any other state in europe. The fact that they have our alphabet is coincidental because it was all Ataturk's vision for turkey, not turkish culture itself.

There is nothing european about turkey. You can't make a case for that.

[Sjakihata]

Not really. Historically they have arrived pretty late, about medieval times or late medieval times. Culturally they are nothing like any other state in europe. The fact that they have our alphabet is coincidental because it was all Ataturk's vision for turkey, not turkish culture itself.

There is nothing european about turkey. You can't make a case for that.

WRONG! Turkey, in ancient time, was part of Europe. In fact, pre-Hellenic society (before 336 bc.) was europe.

Edit: Come to think of it, Homer, in fact mentioned Europa as mainland Greece opposed to the isles.