3rd of October closing in - Hotline for Turkey

**Byzantine Prince** · 09-09-2005, 19:18

Originally Posted by A.Saturnus

Turkey is historically and culturally part of Europe.

Not really. Historically they have arrived pretty late, about medieval times or late medieval times. Culturally they are nothing like any other state in europe. The fact that they have our alphabet is coincidental because it was all Ataturk's vision for turkey, not turkish culture itself.

There is nothing european about turkey. You can't make a case for that.

**Sjakihata** · 09-09-2005, 19:28

Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince

Not really. Historically they have arrived pretty late, about medieval times or late medieval times. Culturally they are nothing like any other state in europe. The fact that they have our alphabet is coincidental because it was all Ataturk's vision for turkey, not turkish culture itself.

There is nothing european about turkey. You can't make a case for that.

WRONG! Turkey, in ancient time, was part of Europe. In fact, pre-Hellenic society (before 336 bc.) was europe.

Edit: Come to think of it, Homer, in fact mentioned Europa as mainland Greece opposed to the isles.

**Byzantine Prince** · 09-10-2005, 00:44

Originally Posted by Sjakihata

WRONG! Turkey, in ancient time

I really hope you are joking...

Just to clarify to anyone who doesn't know, turks didn't exist in ancient times. The oldest they can trace their anciestry is the time of Osman.

Europa was not described by homer. Its an old myth about some chick. Then it was later adopted as a name to describe Europe. Greeks refered to Anatolia(incliding the western coast) and Asia Minor, meaning it's in Asia.

**AntiochusIII** · 09-10-2005, 00:47

BP, Turkey has lands in mainland Europe, and for centuries. If they chose to ask for permission to join EU, then they clearly pass the first test: being in Europe.

Though Asia was indeed original name of Asia Minor. The Aenead has several passages refering to Troy as some sort of "lords of Asia."

Still, your bitter opposition against Turkish attempt to join the EU smells of racism.

Edit: Oh, and their ancestry could be traced before Osman. At least during the Seljuks, for sure. Of course, they are a mixed people of mixed blood.

**LeftEyeNine** · 09-10-2005, 02:15

Byzantine Prince

Please try your claims being more rational.

First of all, saying "tracing before Osman" is just ridiculous. Osman was no Adam, he was not a sole father in any way. You may be referring to Ottomans maybe.

Secondly, Orkhon Scripts prove the existence of Turks at least lasting since 6th century. The first of the three epitaphs were erected by Bilge Khan of Gokturks. Second was erected by his son and the third one was by Tonyukuk.

For more info on the first state to call themselves "Turk" :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gokturk

The same link proves the Huns to be ancestors of Turks as well, which was opposed in another thread before..

Result is clear.

**Byzantine Prince** · 09-10-2005, 02:24

6th century is not ancient. Also those turks were in the steppes, nowhere near where they would later go.

First of all, saying "tracing before Osman"

I never said before. I said the turks were first known in a big way after Osman. I am aware of the fact that there are Seljuks and others.

Still, your bitter opposition against Turkish attempt to join the EU smells of racism.

Heh, I guess the EU better omit the word European then because it's not PC enough. A lot of people think Turkey shouldn't join for the same reasons as me. I saw an interview with the former french president Valerie D'Estaing and he had the same opinion on why they shouldn't join. I'm not the only one who understands there are differences in the cultures and people's of europe and the turkish one.

**Redleg** · 09-10-2005, 03:53

Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince

6th century is not ancient. Also those turks were in the steppes, nowhere near where they would later go.

However the 6th Century is enough considering you stated that you would allow Israel to join the EU - and they have only been settled by Europeans since just before WW2 - with the main immigration after the war. It seems you want to allow Israel into the European Union when it also sets in Asia.

Lets refresh our memories with your statement

Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince post #60

I am aware that they are semites, but none of the look like it. A lot of Israelis are blonde and red headed, and also most of them look pure white. That indicates a mostly european background. Think about it, they arived in France in the medival times . They mixed in a millions times since then.

So yeah Israel could enter the EU.

The country that is Turkey has a varity of peoples that have lived there with many even remain there - and as mentioned before - lets see Rome even had a second capital there. Same as it seems that many people of Greek decent also live in Turkery. (by all means correct me if I am wrong LeftEyeNine). If the nation that is now Turkey has had over the last 2500 odd years intermingling of culture, peoples, and have in fact been invaded and held by European Powers - and in fact have also invaded and held lands in Europe don't qualify for the European Union - then Israel surely does not either.

Heh, I guess the EU better omit the word European then because it's not PC enough. A lot of people think Turkey shouldn't join for the same reasons as me. I saw an interview with the former french president Valerie D'Estaing and he had the same opinion on why they shouldn't join. I'm not the only one who understands there are differences in the cultures and people's of europe and the turkish one.

Yep but your one of the ones who stated that Israel can join the European Union but Turkey can not. You opened the barn door to the arguement.