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    "'elp! I'm bein' repressed!" Senior Member Aenlic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Relief effort has racial element?

    Charity Hospital, known really as Big Charity, but officially called the Medical Center of Louisiana at New Orleans is (was) run by the Lousiana State University system. It was the oldest continuously operated hospital in the U.S. up until last week. Yes, it's government run; but by the LSU system. It received funds from donations and from reimbursements for Medicaid and Medicare. New Orleans had, until last week, ranked 5th highest in the U.S. in terms of the percentage of its population without health insurance, and New Orleans was the 4th most impoverished city in the U.S. as of last week. Charity was the hospital of last resort, as opposed to the much more expensive private Tulane Hospital.
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Relief effort has racial element?

    For three days NO was told that a calls 4 or 5 hurricane was going to hit. They also knew that the levies werent designed to survive such a storm. They also had an evacutation plan. They never did squat to implement it. The Mayor is a moron. This is what happens in a state where they count on the government to take care of them.
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    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Relief effort has racial element?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    For three days NO was told that a calls 4 or 5 hurricane was going to hit. They also knew that the levies werent designed to survive such a storm. They also had an evacutation plan. They never did squat to implement it. The Mayor is a moron. This is what happens in a state where they count on the government to take care of them.
    LOL! From now on every citizen should build his own levee! Why didn't they think of it before? Sorry, it is becoming impossible to take you serious anymore, Gawain.
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Relief effort has racial element?

    LOL! From now on every citizen should build his own levee! Why didn't they think of it before? Sorry, it is becoming impossible to take you serious anymore, Gawain.
    I suggest its you who shouldnt be taken seriously anymore. If you lived somewhere where they said if a force 4 hurricane hits you ciity will be under water and were told a force 4 or 5 hurricane was headed there would you just stay there? If you were the mayor would you evacuate the place or not? They knew the levies wouldnt hold and yet they stayed. The Mayor knew and yet didnt put into effect the evacutaion plan at all.All I can say is their lucky the storm veered away at the last minute.
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    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Relief effort has racial element?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    If you lived somewhere where they said if a force 4 hurricane hits your city (..)
    Who would 'they' be? Ah, the evil government! I thought you would never rely on the goverment, Gawain?

    Really, nearly everything you have posted about Katrina has been self-defeating. Remember that paranoid Boontz-blog you quoted? The one with the racist undertones that said the NO authorities demanded that everyone hand in their guns when they entered the Superdome so they would be easy prey for gangs and rapists? Man, oh man...
    The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott

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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Relief effort has racial element?

    I doubt that there was, or is, any racist component.

    As to whether class plays into it, the only demonstrable truth is that those lacking the personal resources to evacuate (for whatever reason) were in the greatest danger.

    Planning:

    Apparently, NO had a written evac/hurricane plan ready to go. Known time required for complete evacuation -- included the disadvantaged and hospitalized -- was 72 hours from the mayor's "GO" signal. The mayor's emergency power would have been sufficient to declare the evac provided that the state of emergency had been acknowledged.

    Unfortunately, the plan wasn't implemented and may not have been well known to anyone outside the NO government committee that developed it. SNAFU then became FUBAR when the levees went.

    Seamus
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    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Relief effort has racial element?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
    Apparently, NO had a written evac/hurricane plan ready to go.
    Apparently both the State and the City had one. This is the Louisiana plan. I can't seem to find the City of New Orleans plan.

    Here is a line-up of crucial episodes by the BBC which is still tentative, I guess, in the sense that reporters don't know what went on behind the screens. It is being updated once a day.

    Multiple failures caused relief crisis
    Analysis
    By Paul Reynolds
    World Affairs correspondent, BBC News website

    The breakdown of the relief operation in New Orleans was the result of multiple failures by city, state and federal authorities.
    Evacuation at last, but why so late?

    There was no one cause. The failures began long before the hurricane with a gamble that a Category Four or Five hurricane would not strike New Orleans.

    They continued with an inadequate evacuation plan and culminated in a relief effort hampered by lack of planning, supplies and manpower, and a breakdown in communications of the most basic sort.

    On top of all this, there is the question of whether an earlier intervention by President Bush could have a made a big difference.

    The planning

    Before Hurricane Katrina struck, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (Fema) was confident that it was ready. Its director, Michael Brown, said: "Fema has pre-positioned many assets including ice, water, food and rescue teams to move into the stricken areas as soon as it is safe to do so."

    Mr Brown even told the Associated Press news agency that the evacuation had gone well. "I was impressed with the evacuation, once it was ordered it was very smooth," he said.

    Yet on Saturday 28 August, the day before the evacuation was ordered, Mr Brown did not say that people should leave the city. All he said was:

    "There's still time to take action now, but you must be prepared and take shelter and other emergency precautions immediately."
    This has made Fema appear complacent in the period immediately before the hurricane arrived. If it did not expect the worst, it would not have prepared for the worst.

    The Brown statement went out on the same day that the National Hurricane Center was warning that Katrina was strengthening to the top Category Five. Everyone knew the dangers of a Category Five. A Fema exercise last year called "Hurricane Pam" had looked at a Category Three, and that was bad enough.

    The evacuation

    It was announced at a news conference by the Mayor Ray Nagin on Sunday 28 August, less than 24 hours before the hurricane struck early the next morning.

    The question has to be asked: Why was it not ordered earlier?

    The Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco said at the same news conference that President Bush had called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation.

    The night before, National Hurricane Director Max Mayfield had called Mayor Nagin to tell him that an evacuation was needed. Why were these calls necessary?

    School buses still lined up after the hurricane

    Again, as with Fema, the New Orleans mayor should have known that on the Saturday, Katrina was strengthening to Five.

    It was already clear on the Sunday that the evacuation would not cover many of the poor, the sick and those who did not pay heed.

    The mayor said people going to the Superdome, a sports venue named as an alternative destination for those unable to leave, should bring supplies for several days. He also said police could commandeer any vehicle for the evacuation.

    But how much support was there at the Superdome? And how much city transport was actually used? There is a photo showing city school buses still lined up, in waterlogged parking lots, after the hurricane.

    There are questions for the mayor, dubbed heroic by some, to answer.

    The relief operation

    The scenes which most shocked the world were at the Superdome and the nearby Convention Center. Yet it turns out that neither Mr Brown nor his boss, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, knew about the crises there until Thursday.

    This, despite numerous television reports from the scene. It was not until Friday that the first relief convoy arrived.

    "It was midday Tuesday that I became aware of the fact that there was no possibility of plugging the gap, and that essentially the lake was going to drain into the city."
    Michael Chertoff, Homeland Security Secretary

    "The very day that this emerged in the press, I was on a video conference with all the officials, including state and local officials. And nobody, none of the state and local officials or anybody else, was talking about a Convention Center," Chertoff told CNN. Note how he blames local officials.

    Nor did he know about the breach in the floodwalls until a day later.

    "It was midday Tuesday that I became aware of the fact that there was no possibility of plugging the gap, and that essentially the lake was going to drain into the city," he said on NBC.

    Other, more successful operations, notably the airlift by the Coast Guard, should be acknowledged.

    And in a disaster area the size of Great Britain, resources were stretched.

    But ironically the failure at the Convention Center would have been fairly easy to put right. Reporters drove there without problems. One took a taxi.

    What, one wonders, was Fema/the mayor's office/the governor's office doing while all that was played out on live TV?

    One lesson agencies might want to learn is that someone senior should do nothing but monitor TV.

    Some of this might explain why people at the Superdome and the Convention Center had to wait so long. It does not explain why communications were not better.

    Another sign of slowness was that the Department of Homeland Security did not issue the first ever declaration of an "incident of national significance" until the Wednesday. Such a declaration allows the federal government a greater role in taking decisions.

    One lesson agencies might want to learn is that someone senior should do nothing but monitor TV

    In fact, the arguments between federal and state authorities about who was able to do what is another part of this story.

    The Department of Homeland Security said the local authorities were inadequate. The locals responded that Fema had been obstructive - it had, for example, stopped three truckloads of water sent by the store Wal-Mart. And so on.

    It took days to sort out who should send troops and from where.

    Indeed, the intricacies of the various responsibilties of state and federal authorities do not always allow for quick decision making, though that did not stop rapid action in New York City on 9/11.

    Nor does Governor Blanco escape criticism. It took until Thursday, for example, for her to sign an order releasing school buses to move the evacuees.

    The president's response

    Mr Bush has been blamed for failing to rise to the occasion. His critics argue that he took too long to get back to Washington and did not provide the inspirational leadership needed at such a time. Nor, it is said, did he intervene early enough to get things moving.

    Washington Post correspondent Dan Balz concluded:

    "Anger has been focused on Bush and his administration to a degree unprecedented in his presidency. Senator Mary Landrieu [a Louisiana Democrat] said in an ABC News interview that aired Sunday that she would consider punching the president and others for their response to what happened there. Local officials, some in tears, have angrily accused the administration of callousness and negligence."

    The president's defenders point out that it was he who urged an evacuation of New Orleans (he has no legal power to order one) and that he did acknowledge the "unacceptable" pace of the relief effort. Further, they say that aid is now flowing and reconstruction will take place.

    Another issue for Mr Bush is why Michael Brown was appointed director of Fema. He had previously been its deputy and had been hired as its general counsel by the director Joe Allbaugh, George Bush's chief of staff when he was Texas governor. Mr Brown, a lawyer from Oklahoma, played a role in studying the government's response to national emergencies. Before that he had run the Arab horse association.

    Senator Hillary Clinton has said that Fema should be removed from the Homeland Security Department and made an independent agency again.

    The gamble

    When Hurricane Camille, a rare top Category Five storm, hit Mississippi in 1969, just missing New Orleans, the levees around the city were strengthened - but only enough to protect against a Category Three hurricane.

    The gamble was taken that another Category Five would not threaten New Orleans anytime soon. This attitude prevailed among successive administrations.

    Lt General Carl Strock, the Army Corps of Engineers commander, admitted that there was a collective mindset - that New Orleans would not be hit. Washington rolled the dice, he said.

    After flooding in 1995, the existing system was improved. However, the sums were relatively small. About $500m was spent over the next 10 years.

    From 2003 onwards, the Bush administration cut funds amid charges from the Army Corps of Engineers that the money was transferred to Iraq instead. The latest annual budget was cut from $36.5m to $10.4m.

    A study to examine defences against a category Four or Five storm was proposed, at a cost of $4m. The Times-Picayune quoted the Army Corps of Engineers project manager Al Naomi as saying: "The Iraq war forced the Bush administration to order the New Orleans district office not to begin any new studies."

    But in any event, there was no plan for a major strengthening. This would have taken billions of dollars and many years.

    And an Army Corps of Engineers spokeswoman, Connie Gillette, said there had never been any plans or funds to improve those floodwalls which had failed.

    Update: a reader has pointed out a quote in the New York Times indicating that the failed floodwalls had in fact previously been strengthened:

    '"Shea Penland, director of the Pontchartrain Institute for Environmental Studies at the University of New Orleans, said [it] was particularly surprising because the break was "along a section that was just upgraded." "It did not have an earthen levee," Dr. Penland said. "It had a vertical concrete wall several feel thick."' It is a long and complex chain of responsibility.

    All these issues, and many more, will now be the subject of congressional and other inquiries.
    The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott

  8. #8
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Relief effort has racial element?

    Who would 'they' be? Ah, the evil government! I thought you would never rely on the goverment, Gawain?
    If you didnt rely on them at all there would be no levies and no disaster thats true. Im talking about engineers here not the government. I also never said to neve ely on the govenment. Thats a stupid statement. Relying on them as little as possible though is another matter.

    Really, nearly everything you have posted about Katrina has been self-defeating.
    Says you

    Really, nearly everything you have posted about Katrina has been self-defeating. Remember that paranoid Boontz-blog you quoted? The one with the racist undertones that said the NO authorities demanded that everyone hand in their guns when they entered the Superdome so they would be easy prey for gangs and rapists? Man, oh man...
    You sound like the racist here. He never mentioned race.
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    Yesdachi swallowed by Jaguar! Member yesdachi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Relief effort has racial element?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdrianII
    Who would 'they' be? Ah, the evil government! I thought you would never rely on the goverment, Gawain?

    Really, nearly everything you have posted about Katrina has been self-defeating. Remember that paranoid Boontz-blog you quoted? The one with the racist undertones that said the NO authorities demanded that everyone hand in their guns when they entered the Superdome so they would be easy prey for gangs and rapists? Man, oh man...
    I believe they would have also been the “media” and everyone listens to them.
    Peace in Europe will never stay, because I play Medieval II Total War every day. ~YesDachi

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