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    Alienated Senior Member Member Red Harvest's Avatar
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    Default Republicans in Full Cover Up Mode after Katrina

    Looks like the Republican response to Katrina is now kicking into high gear, if only the Administration's emergency response had been as energetic.

    The House and Senate Republicans got together to start a bicameral, but not bipartisan investigation of the Katrina response. The Democratic members learned of it from the media. Looks like we can kiss our hopes of an independent commission good-bye. This is being done as a cover up, not an investigation. GOP political organs (like FOX ) and its leadership have been pulling out all stops to blame the poor Federal response on Louisiana.

    Watched FOX spinning on the Astrodome this morning..."lockdown" was used. Comment about how "some who probably don't need (or was it deserve?) the promised money" etc. Several other efforts of distortion in the few minutes I watched.

    The day before I watched some blond twit on FOX saying how it was unbelievable that several hundred cops were unaccounted for and could we imagine if that had happened in New York? She said she "understood" (???) but it was just amazing. She seems to have not "understood" all the obvious differences:
    1. New York officers homes were not demolished for the most part (like 70% of New Orleans police.)
    2. New York officer's families were not evacuated or needing evacuation for the most part. Some with large families had to leave with their family.
    3. New York had onlly limited/temporary communications damage compared to New Orleans. And they still had power, they still had sewer, they still had transportation.
    4. There was a lot of help arriving in New York within 72 hours of the attack. There was almost no relief for those New Orleans officers.

    Now we have certain conservative members on the board trying to blame this on a welfare state. Of course they will say that about any poor region because it us unlikely to be a GOP stronghold due to demographics. Easier to blame the victims than face the problem. Is this what you want? A govt. that only responds to disaster in GOP leaning areas? Stupid me, I thought this was supposed to be a govt. by the people, for the people. Not by the GOP, for the GOP.

    Doesn't matter what kind of state it was, the truth is that the main emergency response by our Federal govt. couldn't respond within 5 days of the first major warning. That is unacceptable and it merits independent investigation, as do the state and local responses. Anything else is a cover up.

    P.S. FEMA still does not have its housing vouchers worked out. They are a week late now.
    Last edited by Red Harvest; 09-08-2005 at 18:10.
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    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicans in Full Cover Up Mode after Katrina

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Harvest
    Looks like the Republican response to Katrina is now kicking into high gear, if only the Administration's emergency response had been as energetic.
    Nothing to state - haven't read the news yet to determine if its the administration or just the political party itself.

    The House and Senate Republicans got together to start a bicameral, but not bipartisan investigation of the Katrina response. The Democratic members learned of it from the media. Looks like we can kiss our hopes of an independent commission good-bye. This is being done as a cover up, not an investigation.
    Well if your ever in Dallas - I will take a nice cold beer - only one mind you. - Seems that we predicted this did we not?

    GOP political organs (like FOX ) and its leadership have been pulling out all stops to blame the poor Federal response on Louisiana.
    Had to seperate this one out - so I could make my comment about a cold beer.

    Watched FOX spinning on the Astrodome this morning..."lockdown" was used. Comment about how "some who probably don't need (or was it deserve?) the promised money" etc. Several other efforts of distortion in the few minutes I watched.
    Now that is just wrong - the money needs to be given to all the those who are stricken by the crisis -regardless of their economic scale. What a stupid comment from Fox.

    The day before I watched some blond twit on FOX saying how it was unbelievable that several hundred cops were unaccounted for and could we imagine if that had happened in New York? She said she "understood" (???) but it was just amazing. She seems to have not "understood" all the obvious differences:
    1. New York officers homes were not demolished for the most part (like 70% of New Orleans police.)
    2. New York officer's families were not evacuated or needing evacuation for the most part. Some with large families had to leave with their family.
    3. New York had onlly limited/temporary communications damage compared to New Orleans. And they still had power, they still had sewer, they still had transportation.
    4. There was a lot of help arriving in New York within 72 hours of the attack. There was almost no relief for those New Orleans officers.
    Which blond was it?

    Now we have the conservative members on the board trying to blame this on a welfare state. Of course they will say that about any poor region because it us unlikely to be a GOP stronghold due to demographics. Easier to blame the victims than face the problem. Is this what you want? A govt. that only responds to disaster in GOP leaning areas? Stupid me, I thought this was supposed to be a govt. by the people, for the people. Not by the GOP, for the GOP.
    Only some now - don't go lumping me into the blame the victim crowd for a natural diaster where all three levels of government failed.

    Doesn't matter what kind of state it was, the truth is that the main emergency response by our Federal govt. couldn't respond within 5 days of the first major warning. That is unacceptable and it merits independent investigation, as do the state and local responses. Anything else is a cover up.
    Very true

    P.S. FEMA still does not have its housing vouchers worked out. They are a week late now.
    Oh it will most likely be another week before FEMA sorts its issues out on this crisis. I remember it taking about 6 to 7 days for them to sort out San Antonio vouchers. But I could be wrong since I dislike the way current and past operations by FEMA have been handled.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

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    Alienated Senior Member Member Red Harvest's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicans in Full Cover Up Mode after Katrina

    Quote Originally Posted by Redleg
    Well if your ever in Dallas - I will take a nice cold beer - only one mind you.
    I'm hoping this can still swing the other way, and expressing outrage seems the only chance of it.
    Which blond was it?
    Think her name was "Edie", I'm not familiar with their misc folks. It wasn't just her, it was coordinated.
    Only some now - don't go lumping me into the blame the victim crowd for a natural diaster where all three levels of government failed.
    Edited to fix that error. Quite right you are.
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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicans in Full Cover Up Mode after Katrina

    This thread is comical. Couldn't this have been tacked onto the FEMA bashing thread?
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
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    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicans in Full Cover Up Mode after Katrina

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou
    This thread is comical. Couldn't this have been tacked onto the FEMA bashing thread?
    No more comical then certain allegations of blaming the welfare state for the situation in New Orleans. Its a combination of a whole lot of things. While I hate the welfare state - it was only a portion of why the situation degraded so fast in New Orleans.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

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    RIP Tosa, my trolling end now Senior Member Devastatin Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicans in Full Cover Up Mode after Katrina

    Let me do the math for you again Red Harvest...
    There's a Democrat Mayor, a Democrat City Council, a Democrat Chief of Police, a Democrat Attorney General, a Democrat Governor, a Democrat Lt. Governor, 24 of 39 Louisiana State Senators are Democrat, 67 of 105 Louisiana State House Representatives are Democrat, there's a Democrat Representative in the House from New Orleans, and one of two Senators in the Senate is a Democrat.
    But when the democratic party has great PR firm, the liberal media, then why let the truth get in the way of your partisan foolishness...
    RIP Tosa

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    Alienated Senior Member Member Red Harvest's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicans in Full Cover Up Mode after Katrina

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou
    This thread is comical. Couldn't this have been tacked onto the FEMA bashing thread?
    No, the Cover Up deserves its own thread. The "comical" part is that after 9/11 we are less prepared for a disaster than before. Only it isn't that funny, we've been doing all this crap for security, and it was a lie, a farce.

    Dubya and his apologists deserve not an F, but a ZERO.
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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicans in Full Cover Up Mode after Katrina

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Harvest
    No, the Cover Up deserves its own thread. The "comical" part is that after 9/11 we are less prepared for a disaster than before. Only it isn't that funny, we've been doing all this crap for security, and it was a lie, a farce.
    Yeah, the I remember how the Democrats were screaming in protest while the Republicans forced through their plans for creating bloated beaurocracies... not. Yet somehow it's still all Bush's fault. Again, this was covered in a previous thread- I'm going to have to start quoting myself. I swear, it seems these new threads are made just so people can sling the same disproved allegations anew.

    The Democrats did fight parts of Bush's DHS bill, but it was because he wanted to be able to have hiring/firing powers for security reasons, while they wanted the workers to be able to unionize.
    Last edited by Xiahou; 09-08-2005 at 20:03.
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    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republicans in Full Cover Up Mode after Katrina

    Well hopefully congress and the adminstration gets their acts together. It seems that the ability to duck and cover might be limited however given breaking news like this one I just found.

    Sept. 11 Recovery Loans Loosely Managed
    By DIRK LAMMERS and FRANK BASS, Associated Press Writers
    25 minutes ago

    The government's $5 billion effort to help small businesses recover from the Sept. 11 attacks was so loosely managed that it gave low-interest loans to companies that didn't need terrorism relief _ or even know they were getting it, The Associated Press has found.

    And while some at New York's Ground Zero couldn't get assistance they desperately sought, companies far removed from the devastation _ a South Dakota country radio station, a Virgin Islands perfume shop, a Utah dog boutique and more than 100 Dunkin' Donuts and Subway sandwich shops _ had no problem winning the government-guaranteed loans.

    Dentists and chiropractors in numerous cities, as well as an Oregon winery that sold trendy pinot noir to New York City restaurants also got assistance.

    "That's scary. Nine-11 had nothing to do with this," said James Munsey, a Virginia entrepreneur who described himself as "beyond shocked" to learn his nearly $1 million loan to buy a special events company in Richmond was drawn from the Sept. 11 program.

    "It would have been inappropriate for me to take this kind of loan," he said, noting that the company he bought suffered no ill effects from Sept. 11.

    Arvind "Andy" Patel, 50, said he used his $350,000 loan in fall 2002 to remodel his Dunkin' Donuts shop in western New York state and never knew it was drawn through the Sept. 11 program.

    "Not at all," Patel answered, when asked whether his business had been hurt by the attacks.

    Government officials said they believe banks assigned some loans to the terror relief program without telling borrowers. Neither the government nor its participating banks said they could provide figures on how many businesses got loans that way.

    But AP's nationwide investigation located businesses in dozens of states who said they did not know their loans were drawn from the Sept. 11 programs, suggesting at least hundreds of millions of dollars went to unwitting recipients.

    The Small Business Administration, which administered the two programs that doled out Sept. 11 recovery loans, said it first learned of the problems through AP's review and was weighing whether an investigation was needed. But officials also acknowledged they intended to spread the post-Sept. 11 aid broadly because so many unexpected industries were hurt.

    "We started seeing business (needing help) in areas you wouldn't think of _ tourism, crop dusting, trade and transportation. ... So there were a lot of examples you wouldn't think of, at first blush," SBA Administrator Hector Barreto told AP.

    In all, the government provided, approved or guaranteed nearly $4.9 billion in loans, and took credit for saving 20,000 jobs. That would put the average cost of saving a job at about a quarter million dollars each.

    Of the 19,000 loans approved by the two programs, fewer than 11 percent went to companies in New York City and Washington, according to an AP computer analysis of loan records obtained under the Freedom of Information Act.

    "I had nothing here," said Shirla Yam, who runs a clothing store in the former shadows of the twin towers that got a $20,000 grant from a local advocacy group but no federal aid after Sept. 11. "I don't know if I'll be here next month."

    Under one of the programs, SBA lent money directly to companies that provided detailed statements on how they were hurt. The other program provided incentives _ and guaranteed loans from default _ so banks could lend money to companies they determined were hurt by the post-Sept. 11 economic downturn.

    Most loans were well below market rates _ as low as 4 percent, documents show.

    SBA officials acknowledged the second program, the Supplementary Terrorism Activity Relief (STAR), left banks on an honor system to determine worthy loan recipients.

    "One lender could have been really strict and specific about the borrower providing the documentation to prove that they were affected by the Sept. 11 attacks, and another banker may not have, or may have had ulterior motives for approving loans," said SBA spokeswoman Carol Chastang.

    SBA documents obtained by AP show banks had a strong incentive to approve as many loans as possible from the terror program. The banks profited from the interest while incurring little risk because the government guaranteed 75 percent to 85 percent of each loan.

    And the annual fee the lenders paid to SBA to get the government guarantee was slashed from 0.5 percent to 0.25 percent _ meaning lenders saved an additional $5,000 a year for every $2 million they loaned under STAR.

    "There was definitely an advantage to the lender to get that reduced fee," said Christopher Chavez, an SBA official in Colorado. He said he suspects lenders might not always have talked to businesses about damage from Sept. 11 before moving loans into STAR.

    While SBA officials expressed surprise at AP's findings, banking officials said the agency encouraged the industry to use the post-Sept. 11 programs liberally, especially when its normal guaranteed lending program was hit by steep budget cuts in 2002.

    "They had personnel at our conference stand up and say if you cannot find a reason to move the loan over to the STAR program, contact us and we'll help you find a reason to move it over," recalled Tony Wilkinson, president of the National Association of Government Guaranteed Lenders.

    Major lenders like Wachovia and Wells Fargo declined to say how many loans they shifted into the terror relief program, saying only that they followed the law.

    Wells Fargo, the nation's second largest SBA lender, said the STAR program enabled lenders "to provide funds to new and mature businesses impacted by 9/11" and the bank "continues to strictly adhere to SBA operational standards for all SBA loan originations."

    Many loans went to local outlets of some of America's most famous and lucrative companies. For instance, 55 Dunkin' Donuts shops across the country, 14 Quiznos sandwich shops and 52 Subway sandwich shops got loans. Fourteen Dairy Queens _ part of the ice cream franchise partly owned by Wall Street billionaire Warren Buffett _ won more than $5 million in loans.

    "I just applied for the loan at the bank. I had no idea where the funds came from," said Tom Mayl, who got two SBA Sept. 11 loans totaling more than $800,000 to open a Subway shop in suburban Dayton, Ohio, and a Buffalo Wild Wings restaurant in Sidney, Ohio.

    "It doesn't seem right, just on the surface, but I really don't know the details," Mayl said.

    Don Robinson said he too didn't need or ask for terrorism relief when he got a $765,000 government-backed loan in 2003 _ drawn without his knowledge from the Sept. 11 program _ to start a motorcycle shop in Brigham City, Utah.

    "Actually, the motorcycle industry grew after 9/11," Robinson said. "People just took their money out of the stock market to buy toys."

    Dentists and chiropractors also were frequent, but unwitting, beneficiaries. "They weren't putting their health second to anything else," chiropractor Colby Shores said of his patients in the suburbs of Rochester, N.Y. He was unaware his $87,000 loan with a 4 percent interest rate came from the terror relief program.

    The loan patterns uncovered by AP left some seething in the neighborhoods directly scarred by Sept. 11.

    "You have to take it back and give it to us. Even now, I could use it," said Mike Yagudayev, who said the SBA would only provide him $20,000 of a $70,000 loan he requested to rebuild his hair salon flattened by the collapse of World Trade Center towers in New York.

    "I said, `You know what, take it back. Twenty thousand is like an insult,'" he recalled.

    Thousands of businesses far from the devastation had no trouble getting SBA loans, simply submitting short applications that linked their slow business to the widespread economic fallout caused by Sept. 11. For instance:

    _Karl Grimmelmann, general manager of KBFS-AM "Hit Kickin' Country" in Belle Fourche, S.D., borrowed $135,000 from SBA's disaster program after learning about it from a news release. He said his station was forced to pay more money to cover national news and also lost advertisers. "Everybody started holding onto their money, plain and simple," he said.

    _Margie Olson, co-owner of the Torii Mor Winery in McMinnville, Ore., said her business needed a $125,000 loan because it couldn't sell high-end pinot noir to Manhattan restaurants that had closed. "Everyone started hitting the heavy stuff," Olson said, laughing.

    _Melva Kravitz, co-owner of the Little Dogs Resort & Salon in Salt Lake City that offers boarding and grooming services for small dogs, said people stopped taking vacations and boarding their pets after Sept. 11, requiring her $50,000 loan. "It was awful," she said. "You just couldn't go on."

    _Christine Hilty, co-owner of Violettes Boutique on St. Croix in the U.S. Virgin Islands, said the perfume shop lost 60 percent of its business overnight as tourism stopped. She got a $169,500 loan from SBA. "Would we have closed our doors? It was close," she said. "Everyone was afraid to get on a plane. Tourism was totally halted."

    Though the loan programs have ended, the government is inheriting a residual burden. Already, taxpayers have been forced to cover about 600 defaulted disaster loans _ some approaching $1 million each _ from companies that went bankrupt or closed. More defaults are expected.

    Jim Hammersley, who runs the SBA's collection arm, said many applicants asked for too much or too little money to keep their businesses afloat.

    "The folks that were dealing with the aftermath of 9/11 didn't have anything that certain to try and gauge whether they needed money or how much they needed," he said.

    ___

    AP Writers Paul Foy in Utah, Amy Westfeldt and Ben Dobbins in New York, Steve Paulsen in Colorado, Carrie Spencer in Ohio and Stephanie Stoughton in Virginia contributed to this story.
    Now that is poor big government in action is it not?

    Or is the government trying to head off criticism from that story combined with this one.

    10,000 Katrina-Related Jobless Claims Filed
    By MARTIN CRUTSINGER, AP Economics Writer
    53 minutes ago

    WASHINGTON - An estimated 10,000 workers who lost their jobs because of Hurricane Katrina filed for unemployment benefits last week, the first wave of what likely will be hundreds of thousands of displaced workers seeking benefits.

    The Labor Department said Thursday that the 10,000 figure was an estimate of the number of disaster-related claims based on spot checks with claims offices in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and neighboring states such as Texas who have agreed to accept benefit applications from workers who have relocated from the hurricane areas.

    Overall, a total of 319,000 newly laid off workers filed for claims last week, a slight drop of 1,000 from the previous week.

    However, department analysts cautioned that that the big-picture figure would have been higher except for the fact that many claims offices in the path of the hurricane were shut down. They predicted the number of disaster-related claims will rise sharply in coming week.

    Private economists agreed with that assessment and said that last week's total is likely to be revised higher as well once the government collects more complete data on benefit filings last week.

    "We know that a flood of Katrina-related claims is coming," said Stephen Stanley, chief economist at RBS Greenwich Capital. "The magnitude and the timing are uncertain but the figures will clearly be boosted sharply very soon."

    The Labor Department on Thursday announced $30.8 million in grants to Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas to expand their ability to process claims for unemployment benefits as well as to speed up the payment of benefits to people who found themselves out of work because of Katrina.

    The money will help "expedite unemployment insurance payments through mobile field units, hiring temporary staff, increasing Internet and telephone claims processing and rebuilding damaged facilities," said Labor Secretary Elaine Chao.

    Meanwhile, the Bush administration announced that it was dispatching three Cabinet members and the head of the Social Security Administration to the Gulf Coast on Friday to help get the word out about government benefits storm victims can receive.

    Chao, Treasury Secretary John Snow, Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez and Social Security Commissioner Jo Anne Barnhart will be making stops in Houston, Baton Rouge, La., and Mobile, Ala.

    The Congressional Budget Office on Wednesday forecast a total of 400,000 lost jobs in coming months as a result of what is expected to be the costliest natural disaster in U.S. history. That would mean that the 600,000 to 800,000 payroll jobs that the economy was expected to create from September through December will be cut by half or more.

    Economists will be closely watching the department's weekly jobless claims report for any signs that the impact on employment from Katrina could become even more serious.

    The concern is that consumers, who account for two-thirds of total economic growth, could suddenly reduce their spending because of the rising cost of gasoline and other energy products. In such an event, the drag on the economy could be larger than is currently being forecast.
    Last edited by Redleg; 09-08-2005 at 18:32.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

  10. #10

    Default Re: Republicans in Full Cover Up Mode after Katrina

    Which democrats did Bush blame for 9/11? It is notable that you do not contest the fact that the democrats are using Katrina to attack Bush.. interesting.

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