LA Homeland Security *confirms* ARC kept out!

**Gawain of Orkeny** · 09-08-2005, 22:15

Yes thats right . The LA homeland security agency wouldnt allow the redcross to bring supplies into the superdome before the hurricane because they though it would encourage people to go there. This isnt the federal government but local government.

**Aenlic** · 09-08-2005, 22:21

And I saw an interview with the regional Red Cross director in which she agreed with that decision, for that very reason.

Can you say "red herring"? I knew you could.

**Tribesman** · 09-08-2005, 22:29

Would that be the agency that is under military command Gawain , its not like you to be blaming the military is it , maybe they should court martial the two Major-Generals that run the agency .

because they though it would encourage people to go there.
Would this be at the stage when the dome was already exceding its planned capacity?

**Gawain of Orkeny** · 09-09-2005, 08:00

Would that be the agency that is under military command Gawain , its not like you to be blaming the military is it , maybe they should court martial the two Major-Generals that run the agency .

Heres a couple of quotes from Britt Humes show last night.

MAJOR GARRETT: The Red Cross was ready, just got off the phone with one of their officials. They had a vanguard, Brit, of trucks with water, food, hygiene equipment, all sorts of things ready to go, where? To the Superdome and the convention center. Why weren't they there? The Louisiana Department of Homeland Security told them they could not go.

The state's own agency devoted to the state's homeland security. They told them, you cannot go there. Why? The Red Cross tells me, that state agency in Louisiana said, look, we do not want to create a magnet for more people to come to the Superdome or the convention center. We want to get them out. So at the same time local officials were screaming, where's the food, where's the water, the Red Cross was standing by ready, the Louisiana Department of Homeland Security said you can't go.

As for blaming the generals

Wednesday, Sept. 7, 2005 11:52 p.m. EDT
Gov. Kathleen Blanco's Bureaucrats Blocked Food and Water

The Red Cross was reportedly ready to deliver food, water and other supplies to flood-ravaged refugees who were sweltering inside New Orleans' Superdome last week - but the relief was blocked by bureaucrats who worked for Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco.

Fox News Channel's Major Garrett reported Wednesday that the Red Cross had "trucks with water, food, hygiene equipment, all sorts of things ready to go ... to the Superdome and Convention Center."

Story Continues Below

But the Louisiana Department of Homeland Security, Garrett said, "told them they could not go."
"The Red Cross tells me that Louisiana's Department of Homeland Security said, 'Look, we do not want to create a magnet for more people to come to the Superdome or Convention Center, we want to get them out,'" he explained.

"So at the same time local officials were screaming where is the food, where is the water, the Red Cross was standing by ready [and] the Louisiana Department of Homeland Security said you can't go

Garret by the way is not Major.

The orders come from the Govenor.

**Xiahou** · 09-09-2005, 08:43

Originally Posted by Aenlic

And I saw an interview with the regional Red Cross director in which she agreed with that decision, for that very reason.

Can you say "red herring"? I knew you could.

Not sure where the red herring is. Weren't people screaming for Bush to be burned at the stake over the lack of supplies? Now, when it turns out to be a state decision, people start saying 'Well sure, it was the right thing to do'.

Does this belong in the hypocrisy thread?

**Aenlic** · 09-09-2005, 09:15

A decision made by the Louisiana Homeland Security to stop the Red Cross from setting up inside New Orleans rather than on the periphery has suddenly become the entire relief effort? That isn't just a stretch. It's a major leap. Impressive.

And just for Gawain. Guess who runs the Louisiana State Department of Homeland Security or to be more precise and use the actual name The Louisiana Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness, Gawain! Go ahead, guess! Bzzzt. Times up. LOHSEP is run by Major General Bennett C. Landreneau. Now it is remotely possible that a request by the Red Cross to locate in New Orleans made it all the way to the governor through the general without him saying no or expressing an opinion, very remotely possible. But when you are told that a Major General made the decision, you might want to check your facts before arguing the point.

And while we're on the subject, it was FEMA that delayed the airlift of people from the emergency triage set up at the airport and the makeshift hospital there, by military and civilian transport for a couple of days, even though the planes were sitting on the tarmac. Why? Because they insisted on gathering to the area enough air marshalls and baggage screeners to prevent a possible terrorist from boarding a plane. Effing unbelievable. Those clever terrorists planting a sleeper mole in New Orleans before the hurricane, who would then manage to be rescued and brought by helicopter to the airfield for triage and then evacuated by plane to some other airbase in the middle of effing nowhere! What a plan! That bin Laden is one clever guy, isn't he? Brilliant! FEMA... not so brilliant.

OK, let's hear the next round of Republican talking points regurgitated for our edification and amusement.

**Xiahou** · 09-09-2005, 09:27

Yeah, Aenlic- terrorists would never try anything during a natural disaster. What kind of animal would do that? And certainly, there wasn't anyone in New Orleans causing mischief with firearms right?

A decision made by the Louisiana Homeland Security to stop the Red Cross from setting up inside New Orleans rather than on the periphery has suddenly become the entire relief effort? That isn't just a stretch. It's a major leap. Impressive.

Has anyone here taken a serious look at relief efforts outside of Louisiana? If so they haven't shared it with the rest of us. In fact, pretty much all of the anti-Bush attacks here pointed the situation in New Orleans as evidence of how racist, incompetent, ect he is.... But, if we refute said attacks we're "stretching"? Sounds like you're grasping at straws, honestly.

**Aenlic** · 09-09-2005, 09:47

Originally Posted by Xiahou

Yeah, Aenlic- terrorists would never try anything during a natural disaster. What kind of animal would do that? And certainly, there wasn't anyone in New Orleans causing mischief with firearms right?

So, let me get this right. You're saying it was OK to delay the evacuation of people too injured to treat at the temporary triage on the grounds that there might be a clever terrorist waiting to hijack a C-130 from his stretcher? Maybe lurch up and threaten the pilots with his IV line? "Take this plane and fly it into the White House or I'll pull out my catheter! Do it!" There might be a terrorist in your closest too. You'd better check.

**English assassin** · 09-09-2005, 09:51

And certainly, there wasn't anyone in New Orleans causing mischief with firearms right?

woot, conservative accidentally makes comment that could support gun control alert, woot. Equates firearms owners with terrorists as threat, woot. Where's Charlie Heston when we need him?

Oh, wait. "guns don't cause mischief, people do." Nothing to see here people, keep walking.

Anyway, I think A's point is that by waiting to screen all these people in case one of them was a terrorist, the authorities must be taken to think that the terrorist capability in the US is so great that they are able to activate a terrorist within 24-48 hours, and get him into NO, and on a refugee flight, and then blow it up.

Which is either the stupidest thing I have every heard, or a damning inditement that your own authorities think they have been so ineffective against terrorism that the terrorists can do whatever they want. Or both

**Slyspy** · 09-09-2005, 15:19

Help actual casualties or search for a hypothetical terrorist threat.......its a tricky one.

**Tribesman** · 09-09-2005, 15:30

As for blaming the generals
Yes gawain the Generals , there are two of them and they have been in charge of that dept. since the military took it over in 1990 .....
So but the relief was blocked by bureaucrats who worked for Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco.
Yes and those bureaucrats happened to be two Major Generals , so oh dear gawain you are criticising the military , I suppose it would be different if it was the Marines eh ?

And to repeat this little nugget which you choose to ignore as it makes you "points" and those you have posted from media sources completely irrelevant .....
Would this be at the stage when the dome was already exceding its planned capacity?

Maybe this is a little hint about what was going on , but you don't seem to have picked up on it .
We want to get them out. and again in your next snippetwe want to get them out,'"
So it seems that they were attempting to evacuate the citizens for some strange reason , I wonder why they would want to be doing that .
Clearly the damn liberals in the military didn't really want to evacuate them at all , they just wanted to stuff them all into already overcrowded reception centres and then starve them . Yes that must be it .

**Adrian II** · 09-09-2005, 16:09

Gentlemen, why don't we listen for a moment to the voice of reason?

Voice of reason

**Devastatin Dave** · 09-09-2005, 16:40

Originally Posted by AdrianII

Gentlemen, why don't we listen for a moment to the voice of reason?

Voice of reason

Why listen to a any voice of reason when its easier to just blame Bush?

**Gawain of Orkeny** · 09-09-2005, 16:55

According to this Christian web site in a 2001 article, a Pew Center report showed that as far back as 2001, only 30% of people in the U.S. got their news from the "big three" networks' news. That isn't quite "the majority of Americans" is it? Hmmm, perhaps the numbers have gone up since 2001 for network news viewership! Possible? Maybe. Likely? Not really.

You just dont get it do you. The press and others have been saying why wasnt there supplies rushed in there and blaming Bush when in fact the desicion was made by the GOVENOR not to allow them in or do the Generals now have the final say in LA matters?

So it seems that they were attempting to evacuate the citizens for some strange reason

THey did not. They said it would encourage people to go there instead of evacuating. It wasnt full. They did have an evacuation plan but never put it into effect.

**Redleg** · 09-09-2005, 17:10

How many people know how the State The Adjutant General is selected?

Its not necessarily chain of command promotion for the National Guard of any given state - its something else.

http://www.bayoubuzz.com/articles.aspx?aid=874

**Redleg** · 09-09-2005, 17:11

Originally Posted by Tribesman

As for blaming the generals
Yes gawain the Generals , there are two of them and they have been in charge of that dept. since the military took it over in 1990 .....

Is the the military as a whole that took over or was it the Louisana National Guard.

**Tribesman** · 09-09-2005, 20:28

They said it would encourage people to go there instead of evacuating.
Ah so they wanted people to evacuate
It wasnt full.
Really Gawain , I thought it had 4 times as many people there than they had planned to accomodate . But hey you can always fit more people in can't you , maybe stack them up , put a few in the toilet cubicles (as they were insufficient to be used anyway so might as well utilise the space) .

**Xiahou** · 09-09-2005, 23:00

Originally Posted by Aenlic

So, let me get this right. You're saying it was OK to delay the evacuation of people too injured to treat at the temporary triage on the grounds that there might be a clever terrorist waiting to hijack a C-130 from his stretcher? Maybe lurch up and threaten the pilots with his IV line? "Take this plane and fly it into the White House or I'll pull out my catheter! Do it!" There might be a terrorist in your closest too. You'd better check.

Got a link for that story? I doubt you're giving the full picture.

And again, people keep trying to deflect the point here. Supplies didn't come to the shelters in New Orleans after the floods because they were stopped by state officials. Whether they had a good reason or not is irrelevant to our point- which is, that those who blamed the lack of supplies on Bush & FEMA incompetence were wrong. It was just an unfounded, knee-jerk reaction by Bush haters to try to score political points.

**Aenlic** · 09-09-2005, 23:06

Right after you post a link specifically showing a terrorist threat in New Orleans after the hurricane requiring a need for baggage screeners to check the belongings of people who had just been airlifted by helicopters from rooftops in rising flood waters.

**Gawain of Orkeny** · 09-09-2005, 23:10

Really Gawain , I thought it had 4 times as many people there than they had planned to accomodate .

Before the hurrican even hit?

**Xiahou** · 09-09-2005, 23:21

Originally Posted by Aenlic

Right after you post a link specifically showing a terrorist threat in New Orleans after the hurricane requiring a need for baggage screeners to check the belongings of people who had just been airlifted by helicopters from rooftops in rising flood waters.

Sorry, I feel no need to even refute unsubstantiated claims- if you wont back them up, they should be dismissed entirely.

**Aenlic** · 09-09-2005, 23:47

That's what I thought. While you're moping about unsubstantiated claims, where is your outrage at Gawain for making unsubstantiated claims that it was the governor of Louisiana who specifically ordered the Red Cross to not set up in New Orleans, rather than the Major General in charge of the office that made the decision? What's good for the goose isn't good for the gander? Can you say double standard? I knew you could.

**Xiahou** · 09-10-2005, 00:41

Originally Posted by Aenlic

That's what I thought. While you're moping about unsubstantiated claims, where is your outrage at Gawain for making unsubstantiated claims that it was the governor of Louisiana who specifically ordered the Red Cross to not set up in New Orleans, rather than the Major General in charge of the office that made the decision? What's good for the goose isn't good for the gander? Can you say double standard? I knew you could.

"specifically ordered the Red Cross to not set up in New Orleans"? I don't remember Gawain saying that. But if you're suggesting the chief executive of the state isn't responsible for what her appointees do, then you probably owe Bush a few apologies.

But you're still missing (dodging?) the point. You (and others) were wrong when you suggested Bush's incompetence was to blame for the slow flow of relief supplies into New Orleans. You could at least admit that your contempt for the man caused you to jump to conclusions.

**Tribesman** · 09-10-2005, 03:30

You could at least admit that your contempt for the man caused you to jump to conclusions.
Yes Right......and some more .......
oh yeh there it is.... Did or did not the States emerrrgency plan contain (with provisions for federal aid) a plan trhat was set up for over 61,000 fatalities .?were there federal resources at hand ?did 61,000 people die??????
Oh No then it must be a success
Blame every feckwit gobshite that is responsible . Be it at State or National level .
the balls up that ran through every level of goverment from the top to the botommust be acounted for (sidelining Brown is not is not accounting for the failures , that is findig a sacrificial lamb)

Now slightly off topic.....isn't it good that the a residents have decided tht their possesion of arms is enough to ensure that the Guards don't evict them from their property , but evicted they must be ....
So for all you people who claim that the constitution reserves you the right to forcibly reject the gvernment wuld be willihg to fae the 82nd ?

**Tribesman** · 09-10-2005, 03:43

You could at least admit that your contempt for the man caused you to jump to conclusions.
When faced with a lying dickhead of very limited capacity of logical reasoning then it isn't that much of a jump is it ?
Or are you gping to argue that shrub somehow manages to rise above the general level of ineptitude and incompetance that other politicians strive to obtain?

A herd of squeezed bulls

**Proletariat** · 09-10-2005, 04:21

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Did or did not the States emerrrgency plan contain (with provisions for federal aid) a plan trhat was set up for over 61,000 fatalities .?were there federal resources at hand ?did 61,000 people die??????

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

Before waxing incoherent, could you at least not put a space before every comma, period, exclamation, question mark you type? It makes it very difficult to read your posts most of the time, Tribesman.

**Gawain of Orkeny** · 09-10-2005, 04:23

Looks like someones been hitting the bottle a bit hard here.

**Aenlic** · 09-10-2005, 06:47

Originally Posted by Xiahou

"specifically ordered the Red Cross to not set up in New Orleans"? I don't remember Gawain saying that. But if you're suggesting the chief executive of the state isn't responsible for what her appointees do, then you probably owe Bush a few apologies.

But you're still missing (dodging?) the point. You (and others) were wrong when you suggested Bush's incompetence was to blame for the slow flow of relief supplies into New Orleans. You could at least admit that your contempt for the man caused you to jump to conclusions.

The difference between us at the moment, well one of many, is that I have never said that the mayor or the governor aren't to blame. While you have gone out of your way to blame only them and defended Bush at every step. If, as you claim, the governor is to blame solely because she is at the head of the chain of command, then so is Bush - for the very same reason. And yet, even after making that valid point, you then proceed to claim that blaming Bush is jumping to conclusions and that blaming Bush is wrong. You quite simply can't see the problem with that.

And I do have a link to the source of the story about FEMA and the air marshalls and baggage screeners. It was even on at least two national news networks, although I haven't bothered to check further. My point was that you aren't capable of dealing with the information; because you're too wrapped up in playing cover Bush's ass and blame the Democrats.

**Gawain of Orkeny** · 09-10-2005, 06:59

The difference between us at the moment, well one of many, is that I have never said that the mayor or the governor aren't to blame. While you have gone out of your way to blame only them and defended Bush at every step. If, as you claim, the governor is to blame solely because she is at the head of the chain of command, then so is Bush - for the very same reason. And yet, even after making that valid point, you then proceed to claim that blaming Bush is jumping to conclusions and that blaming Bush is wrong. You quite simply can't see the problem with that.

THe shoe here is on the other foot. We have all said that trying to blame it all on Bush or anyone else for that matter is ludicrous. Its the left who claim its all Bushs fault. We dont say hes blameless but that theres lots of blame to be passed around. In fact I started a thread on it. I suggest you go look. Old George is right up there on the blame list.

**Tribesman** · 09-10-2005, 10:18

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
It is quite simple , the States evacuation plan in the event of a disaster in a worst case scenario reaconed that even with federal assistance over 10% of the population would become fatalities .
Did over 10% of the population die ?
No , then despite the failures of aspects of the plan and the failure of co-ordination and absence of timely federal assistance it wasn't as bad as they invisaged .

Its the left who claim its all Bushs fault.
Do they ? Where ? All I see is people criticising the response at every level .
Or alternatively , people balming people at every level apart from the very top of the chain .
So who is being blinkered here Gawain ?

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