BI Testing Topic Checklist

[Doug-Thompson]

The Barbarians are loose.

=====================

BI issues answered ... Got it — First along this line goes to Kraxis. Horse archers are fixed. Cavalry charges are toned down. Generals apparently aren't suicidal any more. Titles and gifts ala M:TW are available to improve loyalty. Roman civil wars appear rampant. Much more. Good thread.

[Doug-Thompson]

(sound of crickets chirping)

[lars573]

I'll see what I can do. But considering the speed in reaching a conclusion your recomending it may not be easy to have accurate information.

[Doug-Thompson]

Yeah, I figured it sounded too bossy after not getting any replies. I'll edit the thing.

(Sound of mace-armed cataphract approaching)

WHACK!

There. That should do it.

[Orda Khan]

LOL
I'll look for anything blatantly untoward, though I expect a lot of people to discover things very quickly. You Americans will have a few days to check things before we do

....Orda

[MulusMariae]

How about "Bugged Retinue/Ancillaries"???

Check out http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/...2.html?page=27

I'm baffled...even before the release. Is there any rationale/reason why adding a "shieldbearer" to a general reduces morale for all troops on the battlefield???

[Spino]

I'm going to test whether BI is actually worth dropping any coin on.

My checklist...

1) Refrain from becoming an early adopter and dropping $35+ on the expansion pack.

2) Troll Colosseum forum and weed out the typical Org newbie posts like "Omfg BI totally pwns!" from those that actually give worthwhile information as to the expansion's content, features and improvements.

3) Wait even longer until Org veterans have had time to give BI a proper examination and post their findings on the Colosseum.

4) Once the results of 2) and 3) are in debate whether it is worth it to wait even longer until major mods like Rome Total Realism have had time to migrate over to BI.

[Pode]

I plan on waiting for the promised patch 1.3 for vanilla, then repeating the test procedure outlined in the LM for the save/load bug. Only if I'm satisfied with the results of that test will I pay for BI proper. Depending on the timing of patch release vs. expansion release, I may not be much help. The other issues I can live with, especially as modders figure out workarounds, but if I can't reliably save the game nothing else matters.

[Captain Fishpants]

How about "Bugged Retinue/Ancillaries"???

Check out http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/...2.html?page=27

I'm baffled...even before the release. Is there any rationale/reason why adding a "shieldbearer" to a general reduces morale for all troops on the battlefield???

Let me cure your bafflement, and refute your cry of "bug! bug!" simply and easily. Firstly, I'm pretty sure that the shieldbearer is one of the retainers that survived from the original game.

The logic of a shieldbearer is that the general is harder to kill, but his troops regard him (quietly, among themselves, when talking about the boss around the ancient equivalent of a water cooler) as hiding behind others rather than taking his chances like a real man. Hence the small morale impact. The +2 hitpoints for a general is very useful, though.

Quite straightforward really.

You'll find that a lot of retainers have mixed effects: a good bonus for something, and a lesser penalty in another area. I, along with others on the design team, like a bit of ambiguity rather than an absolute view of the universe.

I have the suspicion that you're going to be further baffled by some of the new retainers in BI. One or two have an 'interesting' mix of effects!

[lars573]

You mean more than 2 or 3. Crap that will crazy. One thing I've always wondered is why sometimes you can't move a retinue away from a guy.

[Puzz3D]

The logic of a shieldbearer is that the general is harder to kill, but his troops regard him (quietly, among themselves, when talking about the boss around the ancient equivalent of a water cooler) as hiding behind others rather than taking his chances like a real man. Hence the small morale impact. The +2 hitpoints for a general is very useful, though.

Quite straightforward really.

I think that logic is faulty. The army doesn't want to loose it's leader, so protecting him should improve morale. Alexander the Great had a shield bearer, and I've never see the idea expressed that this lowered his army's morale.

[Orda Khan]

Didn't he also lead by example, often putting himself in danger? Perhaps in this case there would be a trade off between traits like 'Heroic Leader' to cancel any loss of morale brought about by the shield bearer. I can understand the spread of a certain amount of dissent if a leader protects himself too much while at the same time expecting or demanding bravery from the common soldier

.......Orda

[Red Harvest]

I'm going to test whether BI is actually worth dropping any coin on.

My checklist...

1) Refrain from becoming an early adopter and dropping $35+ on the expansion pack.

2) Troll Colosseum forum and weed out the typical Org newbie posts like "Omfg BI totally pwns!" from those that actually give worthwhile information as to the expansion's content, features and improvements.

3) Wait even longer until Org veterans have had time to give BI a proper examination and post their findings on the Colosseum.

4) Once the results of 2) and 3) are in debate whether it is worth it to wait even longer until major mods like Rome Total Realism have had time to migrate over to BI.

Very similar to my checklist. I did my "beta" testing with RTW.

[Doug-Thompson]

My hope is to collect the threads that would qualify for #2 in Spino's list in one location.

[MulusMariae]

to Captain Fishpants:
Thanks for that detailed reply! I hadn't noticed this mix of effects in the original game for that retainer. I would NEVER have figured out your rationale
without your elucidation.
I do understand what you said, but it still seems a bit odd to me. ...so I would contend that it is perhaps somewhat less than as "straightforward" as you claim.

I'm sure it will be entertaining to see what you claim as 'interesting' mix of effects in any new retainers. But I am quite sure that I will indeed remain baffled by some of the NEW retainers if that is an good example of your thinking.

If they are that 'interesting', I'm sure I will begin to wistfully dream of finding a way of using them to sharpen the daggers of my assassins. As it is, I may have to continue to send them out with my more worthless generals (a la Uriah)

to lars573: You CAN move retainers around... just drag from the info scroll and drop on another general in the same stack.

cheers to all.

[lars573]

Most of the time yes, unless they 2 are polar opposite to each. But some times you just can't get a retinue member away from a guy. In on of m y Brutii campagins I can't get a sword bearer away from one of my old family members into a younger guy I want to groom for field command but the sword bearer just won't go. The young guy has almost no traits and no retinue yet and it won't go.

[MulusMariae]

Oh, now I see what you meant. I haven't noticed that sort of thing myself, so I have no clue...

[SMZ]

I too have noticed the occasional ancillary that will, seemingly, not abandon his friend/master. Puzzling.

[lars573]

Not like it's really a big deal it just means you lose some good retainers once in a while.

[Captain Fishpants]

I too have noticed the occasional ancillary that will, seemingly, not abandon his friend/master. Puzzling.

I think this has been covered before, but when an ancillary won't move to a new general there's usually a conflcit with an existing ancillary at the destination general. There are excluded pairs of retainers who won't mix in a single entourage.

[lars573]

That is true but some times even when a guy has NO retinue at all like my 18 yearold Brutii son whom I'm trying to give a sword bearer too and just can't.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I think this has been covered before, but when an ancillary won't move to a new general there's usually a conflcit with an existing ancillary at the destination general. There are excluded pairs of retainers who won't mix in a single entourage.

Woulda been nice if there was a (perhaps humorous) message explaining why this ancillary can't be near another one...