BI Testing Topic Checklist

**Puzz3D** · 09-15-2005, 16:19

Originally Posted by Captain Fishpants

The logic of a shieldbearer is that the general is harder to kill, but his troops regard him (quietly, among themselves, when talking about the boss around the ancient equivalent of a water cooler) as hiding behind others rather than taking his chances like a real man. Hence the small morale impact. The +2 hitpoints for a general is very useful, though.

Quite straightforward really.

I think that logic is faulty. The army doesn't want to loose it's leader, so protecting him should improve morale. Alexander the Great had a shield bearer, and I've never see the idea expressed that this lowered his army's morale.

**Orda Khan** · 09-15-2005, 16:41

Didn't he also lead by example, often putting himself in danger? Perhaps in this case there would be a trade off between traits like 'Heroic Leader' to cancel any loss of morale brought about by the shield bearer. I can understand the spread of a certain amount of dissent if a leader protects himself too much while at the same time expecting or demanding bravery from the common soldier

.......Orda

**MulusMariae** · 09-15-2005, 20:58

to Captain Fishpants:
Thanks for that detailed reply! I hadn't noticed this mix of effects in the original game for that retainer. I would NEVER have figured out your rationale
without your elucidation.

I do understand what you said, but it still seems a bit odd to me. ...so I would contend that it is perhaps somewhat less than as "straightforward" as you claim.

I'm sure it will be entertaining to see what you claim as 'interesting' mix of effects in any new retainers. But I am quite sure that I will indeed remain baffled by some of the NEW retainers if that is an good example of your thinking.

If they are that 'interesting', I'm sure I will begin to wistfully dream of finding a way of using them to sharpen the daggers of my assassins. As it is, I may have to continue to send them out with my more worthless generals (a la Uriah)

to lars573: You CAN move retainers around... just drag from the info scroll and drop on another general in the same stack.

cheers to all.

**lars573** · 09-15-2005, 22:07

Most of the time yes, unless they 2 are polar opposite to each. But some times you just can't get a retinue member away from a guy. In on of m y Brutii campagins I can't get a sword bearer away from one of my old family members into a younger guy I want to groom for field command but the sword bearer just won't go. The young guy has almost no traits and no retinue yet and it won't go.

**MulusMariae** · 09-15-2005, 22:27

Oh, now I see what you meant. I haven't noticed that sort of thing myself, so I have no clue...

**SMZ** · 09-16-2005, 04:06

I too have noticed the occasional ancillary that will, seemingly, not abandon his friend/master. Puzzling.

**lars573** · 09-16-2005, 04:41

Not like it's really a big deal it just means you lose some good retainers once in a while.

**Captain Fishpants** · 09-16-2005, 09:34

Originally Posted by SMZ

I too have noticed the occasional ancillary that will, seemingly, not abandon his friend/master. Puzzling.

I think this has been covered before, but when an ancillary won't move to a new general there's usually a conflcit with an existing ancillary at the destination general. There are excluded pairs of retainers who won't mix in a single entourage.