State run is good I think...
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
State run is good I think...
BLOOD FOR BLOOD!
DEATH FOR DEATH!
Smelo tovarishchi v' nogu!
I like Bush...
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
You appear to think that I'm blaming this just on the democrats. While I do not know who authorized this, I know it wasn't just the NOPD chief. Somebody in the Nat'l guard had to okay this, and whoever is responsible for letting this happen (and it may indeed go up to Bush) should get axed. I know the higher ups most likely won't get what they should, but I can still hope.
I will put forth, though, that republican, legislators at least, are much more against banning guns and this sort of thing that's going on down in NO.
Is this the smily that means "I can't refute your article, so I'll just try and be sarcastic about it and dismiss it"?
Crazed Rabbit
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
I love this. Obviously the right to own a military spec assault rifle is the hallmark of advanced human civilisation. By this standard the UK is somewhere in the precambrian. Who'da thunk it?Even in Iraq people are allowed an AK-47 for self defense, while here in America the NG and NOPD are consficating legally owned guns when the guns are most needed!
Come on, put your prejudices aside for one moment. Do you seriously think the situation in NO has been helped by the fact that there are more firearms than there are adult humans in the USA?
You know what? If I had to choose I'd rather be in this situation in no-gun Britain than gun-mad USA. Any no-mark can pull a trigger. Its a bit harder to find the balls beat a guy up. Even with two mates.I wonder how tightly Suffredin would clasp to his self-righteously indignant hatred of firearms if he found himself in a Superdome washroom, cornered in a toilet stall by a trio of thugs.
Its your country. But if it was mine I'd be saying, thank god.And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
"The only thing I've gotten out of this thread is that Navaros is claiming that Satan gave Man meat. Awesome." Gorebag
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
Actually, I do quite like guns. I think I should be allowed to own a decent bolt action hunting rifle at least. (I've enjoyed machine guns, but I couldn't really justify owning one. Niot really a gentlemans's weapon ;-) ) I just don't like other people, and I don't think THEY should be allowed to own guns.Fine, so you don't like guns. Whatever. Here in the USA, gun ownership is protected by the constitution. What's going on in New Orleans is ILLEGAL.
Who cares if it makes it safer?
"He who would sacrifice freedom for security deserves neither."
~Benjamin Fanklin
Point taken about illegality. As a lawyer I am all in favour of the rule of law. I happen to think its better if it mostly bans private ownership of guns. Legally.
But, I say again, its your country. But could you answer the qu about NO?
"The only thing I've gotten out of this thread is that Navaros is claiming that Satan gave Man meat. Awesome." Gorebag
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
No offense EA, but I'm going to have to call you out on this one. This is the gun control argument in a nutshell. Speaking as a Brady Bill guy for a second, I am sane and rational. I know what I am doing. I will keep a firearm. But the rest of the populus, well, screw them. If they get a firearm, then my ownership doesn't mean as much. What's the sense of being elite if you're not? We must pass laws so the subhuman majority cannot hurt themselves, but we must allow exemptions for the smart people, such as myself. After all, I have a law degree.Originally Posted by English assassin
If YOU have a right to self-defense and security, why don't I? What makes you better than me?
Last edited by Don Corleone; 09-10-2005 at 04:37.
"A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.
"Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
Strike for the South
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
None taken. I didn't make my point as clear as I should. What I was saying is that, personally I have enjoyed shooting, (and hence don't have an irrational prejudice against guns) and I know I am a safe person to trust with a gun. But because I can't say the same of the population at large I am happy not to have the right to own a gun myself as the price for ensuring "they" don't get them either.No offense EA, but I'm going to have to call you out on this one. This is the gun control argument in a nutshell. Speaking as a Brady Bill guy for a second, I am sane and rational. I know what I am doing. I will keep a firearm. But the rest of the populus, well, screw them. If they get a firearm, then my ownership doesn't mean as much. What's the sense of being elite if you're not? We must pass laws so the subhuman majority cannot hurt themselves, but we must allow exemptions for the smart people, such as myself. After all, I have a law degree.
If YOU have a right to self-defense and security, why don't I? What makes you better than me?
I wasn't saying I should have a gun and "you" shouldn't.
"The only thing I've gotten out of this thread is that Navaros is claiming that Satan gave Man meat. Awesome." Gorebag
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
I didn't mean 'me' necessarily. But can't the same arguments be applied to being a parent? I know I'm good at it, but I'm not too sure about everyone else? Or managing my own finances? Or any of a bunch of choices we wake for ourselves?
Rights aren't doled out. They're not something that you earn after you prove competence or join the right group. They're either universal, or they're not a right. This applies to any right, including the right to self-defense.
"A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.
"Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
Strike for the South
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
The right to defend yourself, and have availible the most advanced tools for doing so, is what makes a man free. But the point I was trying to make you did not address; that they allow everyone to have an AK-47 in Iraq (in a country torn by violence) whereas in NO they are going around to peaceable people and taking their guns.I love this. Obviously the right to own a military spec assault rifle is the hallmark of advanced human civilisation. By this standard the UK is somewhere in the precambrian. Who'da thunk it?
It most certainly has. Have you read any of the reports I've seen of people using their guns to deter machete-armed looters? It would have been helped more had all people had guns, then the crooks would have no easy targets. Your problem is that you cannot see firearms being used for good. The anti-gunners have effectively brainwashed lots of people to think that guns can only be used for bad.Come on, put your prejudices aside for one moment. Do you seriously think the situation in NO has been helped by the fact that there are more firearms than there are adult humans in the USA?
And any yob with a kitchen knife can stab you. Except in Britain, you have no means to defend yourself. And its really, really hard to find the guts to beat someone up if there's a good chance he has a gun.You know what? If I had to choose I'd rather be in this situation in no-gun Britain than gun-mad USA. Any no-mark can pull a trigger. Its a bit harder to find the balls beat a guy up. Even with two mates.
I'll bet that's what the people who had their guns stolen said, as they are now at the mercy of crooks and the NG certainly isn't going to guard every house.Its your country. But if it was mine I'd be saying, thank god.
'The police haven't restored order, but they have stolen my only protection!'
Not you, Crazed Rabbit.
Crazed Rabbit
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
No means other than the machete, ice axe, and Prussian infantry officer sword I have in the house. And the few years karate, Ju jitsu, and fencing training I have under my belt. backed with a reasonable weights regime. Not to mention the motivation I have to protect my wife and children. In this scenario, my money is on me.And any yob with a kitchen knife can stab you. Except in Britain, you have no means to defend yourself.
No disrespect, because I am not arguing with your motives, but right now in the UK the balance of advantage is in my favour. I don't really want some loser teenager to be able to cancel that out just because he bought a saturday night special.
No insult to teenagers intended
"The only thing I've gotten out of this thread is that Navaros is claiming that Satan gave Man meat. Awesome." Gorebag
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
Haven't gun crimes been on the rise in the UK? Weird since they're banned.
"Don't believe everything you read online."
-Abraham Lincoln
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
Here's a good way to go looking to help people.
'Why no, this isn't a police state of unconstitutional search and siezure. We're just trying to help.'
I doubt most people have the same physical means as you have to defend themselves. And what if a yob attacks you on the street with a knife?No means other than the machete, ice axe, and Prussian infantry officer sword I have in the house. And the few years karate, Ju jitsu, and fencing training I have under my belt. backed with a reasonable weights regime. Not to mention the motivation I have to protect my wife and children. In this scenario, my money is on me.
No disrespect, because I am not arguing with your motives, but right now in the UK the balance of advantage is in my favour. I don't really want some loser teenager to be able to cancel that out just because he bought a saturday night special.
For most people, having a gun, at the very least, levels the playing field. When there are a lot of guns owned by people, that means a crook, even with a gun, faces a very serious risk of being shot - and is at a severe disadvantage, in that the homeowner needs only sit in their bedroom with a shotgun pointed at the door. When you have a good chance of dying, that deters a lot of crime (as opposed to now in britain, where the crook can sue you for trying to protect your house with barbed wire, and the vast majority are easy targets.)
Why do you think Switzerland, land of a assualt rifle (in the real sense of the word) in every home, has the lowest crime in the world?
Crazed Rabbit
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
Here's something on the Home Office website:
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime/guncrime/
Whatever the actual statistics, they are an awful lot lower than they are in America.
"Look I’ve got my old pledge card a bit battered and crumpled we said we’d provide more turches churches teachers and we have I can remember when people used to say the Japanese are better than us the Germans are better than us the French are better than us well it’s great to be able to say we’re better than them I think Mr Kennedy well we all congratulate on his baby and the Tories are you remembering what I’m remembering boom and bust negative equity remember Mr Howard I mean are you thinking what I’m thinking I’m remembering it’s all a bit wonky isn’t it?"
-Wise words from John Prescott
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
I fell into this mistake myself. Not weird at allHaven't gun crimes been on the rise in the UK? Weird since they're banned.
Possession of a firearm becomes an offence.
People are then arrested for possessing illegal firearms.
Therefore the ban was a failure because "gun crime" is rising.
I think we can all see the logical flaw in that argument. I would like to take this opportunity to apologise for having propagated it myself
As any reputable martial arts instructor will tell you, if you can, leg it. If you can't run, give them what they want. If you can't do that, then use what you know and fight.I doubt most people have the same physical means as you have to defend themselves. And what if a yob attacks you on the street with a knife?
I still wouldn't want a gun. But that is in the UK context where I am 99% confident they would not have one either. Things are so messed up in the states, I guess I would want one.
Last edited by English assassin; 09-09-2005 at 23:40.
"The only thing I've gotten out of this thread is that Navaros is claiming that Satan gave Man meat. Awesome." Gorebag
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
That's great for you.
What about the rest of us non-Ninjas out here? Should a women just get raped if a sexual predator breaks into her house because they couldn't karate chop him?
I guess in England the muscle bound ogres are free to self-defense while the meek get targeted.
Welcome to the Cambrian Period!
Last edited by Proletariat; 09-09-2005 at 23:45.
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
On the other hand her attacker won't be carrying a gun. And I've been in (martial arts) clubs with women who could kick my arse, no hesitation admitting it. And they were no muscle bound ogres I can promise you.That's great for you.
What about the rest of us non-Ninjas out here? Should a women just get raped if a sexual predator breaks into her house because they couldn't karate chop him?
I guess in England the muscle bound ogres are free to self-defense while the meek get targeted
Simply untrue as a matter of fact in the UK. In the US, maybe so. In which case I guess you are stuffed.The criminals can and always will have access to any gun out there.
Last edited by English assassin; 09-09-2005 at 23:52.
"The only thing I've gotten out of this thread is that Navaros is claiming that Satan gave Man meat. Awesome." Gorebag
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
Why don't the civilians resieze their guns?... I sure as hell would.... or bludgeon an NG guy and take his
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
I think you will find full quadriplegics would have difficulty using a gun anyway...
Or, if you can use a gun, you can cause harm to someone even without one, it doesn't take to much effort to knee someone in the groin (and that does hurt, a lot), or poke them in the eyes, or bite them (if they are really close, don't charge in to do this), or the best one yet, just run away if you can... fists and knives are not ranged weapons, and as they are incredibly unlikely to have a firearm, they are pretty much thwarted. Of course, this won't work in the US, where they ARE likely to have a gun, so don't try this at home.
You are right, against someone with a gun, that shiny knife is pretty much useless... of course, the number of times I have had a crime committed against me with the bad guy being aimed with a gun is zero. The number of people I know who have been the victim of a gun crime is zero. I know quite a few people who own firearms (having grown up in the country), but they are all rifles, typically bolt-action, none of them assault weapons. That's right, no pistols, assault rifles, machine guns, sub-machine guns, machine pistols, flame throwers, rocket launchers, AA batteries, coastal defence guns... you get the idea. They just aren’t needed... an M16 isn't THAT good if you need to kill a sheep dying of starvation.
In fact, the only time I have seen a pistol is when it's safely holstered on a policeman.
Then again, I do live in a country where when an armed robbery is committed on the other side of the continent, it's major national news. I guess guns, and gun crime, is something that happens elsewhere.
Is it cultural? Or will removing all those pretty pea-shooters really make a difference? Probably both, most illegal guns started out as legal weapons, those legal weapons had to come from somewhere, and not even the biggest organised crime groups would raid the Springfield armoury, so I guess they were stolen from civilians. In theory, take away the guns from the civilians and you take away the source for the guns for the criminals, but this will only really work if there were not that many illegal guns to begin with, they will slowly be picked up over time and become prized, horded possessions (as they have here, the majority of pistols are in the control of the proper crime syndicates... you will find they like to shoot each other much more then rape little old ladies and do house breaks).
I guess ultimately the US patrons don't know what it is like to live in a gunless society, and I don't know what it's like to live in a gunfull society.
I have a law degree.
Sorry, couldn't resist, you are a good person Don, I'd give you a honouree law degree to make you better then everyone else too.
*Please note: The above statement includes trace amounts of sarcasm, if congested in a serious manner, induce vomiting and consult a head doctor*
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
Not you, Crazed Rabbit.You appear to think that I'm blaming this just on the democrats. While I do not know who authorized this, I know it wasn't just the NOPD chief. Somebody in the Nat'l guard had to okay this, and whoever is responsible for letting this happen (and it may indeed go up to Bush) should get axed. I know the higher ups most likely won't get what they should, but I can still hope.
I will put forth, though, that republican, legislators at least, are much more against banning guns and this sort of thing that's going on down in NO.
Crazed Rabbit
"Dee dee dee!" - Annoymous (the "differently challenged" and much funnier twin of Anonymous)
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
Who then?Not you, Crazed Rabbit.
So, are there any state or federal emergency powers being exploited to allow for this, or are they just taking it upon themselves? Either way, barging into people's homes and siezing weapons without cause is way out of line.
"Don't believe everything you read online."
-Abraham Lincoln
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
Hmm, must have been me. Geez, where did I ever imply I trust a Republican administration to look to my rights more than a Democratic one? Either will happily yank them. The reasons they give will be wildly different, but the end result will be the same.Not you, Crazed Rabbit.
Was that what you were looking for from me? Funny, I would have thought when I traced the decay of individual freedoms back to the mid-20's, I would have assumed you would have understood I was including the Reagen and both Bush administrations in there....
"A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.
"Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
Strike for the South
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
we need a nuclear war.... seriously.
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
And that would solve what
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
Everything... sorry I'm slightly anebriated... but at this point I could care less if everything was destroyed in a fiery nuclear holocaust... it's just stupid at this point.And that would solve what
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
It just dawned on me. I now know why Europeans are so obsessed with talking America into doing away with the 2nd ammendment....
They can't go reclaim their former colonies with all of us running about armed, now can they? If you want a weak enemy, what's the first step? Tell them you're their friend and talk him into weakening himself. Hmmm.... I meant this as satire, but sadly, it's ringing true...
"A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.
"Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
Strike for the South
Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
I wasn't dismissing it. I was laughing at it. I found that crackpot's comments amusing. Sorry, I used the wrong smiley.
"What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"
- TSM
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