Pentagon 9-11

[barocca]

could someone be so kind as to explain these two sites to me

a boeing? what boeing? (view the flash presentation)

and

the invisible boeing

can anyone provide photo's to refute the allegations on these sites?

this is in the news here in Oz, local muslim leaders have called into question what really happened at the Pentagon, and by inference are wondering were all the events of 9-11-2001 staged?

I do not for one second imagine US would launch such an attack on itself,
i think the attacks happened almost the way we have been told,
but i think the pentagon was kamikaze'd by a US air force fighter and the Gov. will not admit it simply because that would be devestating to morale,
so did flight 77 really exist?
and if so what happened to it? because, so far as i can find, it sure dont look like a 757 hit the Pentagon.


so what really happened?

B.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Please smack anyone who suggests September 11 was staged for me.

Where would the fighter jet have gone, too?

And wouldn't it have left a bigger mark, if it was going at even a decent speed?

(If it was staged:) why the Pentagon? A really important building? Why not something less vital?

And of course, can you trust the websites making these claims?

[Strike For The South]

Here is some linkage that should clear it up LINKAGE

[Ser Clegane]

Here is Snopes' take on the issue.

EDIT: I need to type more quickly GAH!

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Please smack anyone who suggests September 11 was staged for me.

Where would the fighter jet have gone, too?

And wouldn't it have left a bigger mark, if it was going at even a decent speed?

(If it was staged:) why the Pentagon? A really important building? Why not something less vital?

And of course, can you trust the websites making these claims?

Enough said.

[Don Corleone]

could someone be so kind as to explain these two sites to me

a boeing? what boeing? (view the flash presentation)

and

the invisible boeing

can anyone provide photo's to refute the allegations on these sites?

this is in the news here in Oz, local muslim leaders have called into question what really happened at the Pentagon, and by inference are wondering were all the events of 9-11-2001 staged?

I do not for one second imagine US would launch such an attack on itself,
i think the attacks happened almost the way we have been told,
but i think the pentagon was kamikaze'd by a US air force fighter and the Gov. will not admit it simply because that would be devestating to morale,
so did flight 77 really exist?
and if so what happened to it? because, so far as i can find, it sure dont look like a 757 hit the Pentagon.


so what really happened?

B.

I understand that there's a large population of people out there that so hate the United States, they'll do anything, say anything they can to make certain that they have a way to blame the United States for whatever happened. It's sad to see that they're in Australia and here in the Backroom. As Ser Clegnane has said, this theory has been out since 9/11 and has been debunked many, many times. Despite the wonderful background music & the underplay of Hitler's speeches in the soundtrack, it's a damnable lie created by people that hate the US. In propagating it, you show yourself to count among them. Regardless of your thoughts on Bush, the US government, or Americans in general, don't you think that as the administrator for this site, you owe it to at least publish credible lies?

[Shottie]

Read this:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books



This opened my eyes to what really happened. I'm not saying I agree with it because if there is a problem I agree to both sides but it really does question what really happened that day.

[Zharakov]

Ha ha... The Pentagone was hit by a Soviet ICBM...

[barocca]

I understand that there's a large population of people out there that so hate the United States, they'll do anything, say anything they can to make certain that they have a way to blame the United States for whatever happened. It's sad to see that they're in Australia and here in the Backroom. As Ser Clegnane has said, this theory has been out since 9/11 and has been debunked many, many times. Despite the wonderful background music & the underplay of Hitler's speeches in the soundtrack, it's a damnable lie created by people that hate the US. In propagating it, you show yourself to count among them. Regardless of your thoughts on Bush, the US government, or Americans in general, don't you think that as the administrator for this site, you owe it to at least publish credible lies?

i think you can imagine where i would tell you to put that attitude, and if not Then i will gladly provide a torch (suitably lubriucated) so you can look for the location.

I do not for one second imagine US would launch such an attack on itself

can anyone provide photo's to refute the allegations on these sites?

Try READING my post please before you launch into a self righteous crusade and make allegations against me that are clearly FALSE.


the sites i linked to are in the news HERE AND NOW in Oz

the links you guys are providing ARE NOT in the news

keep giving me links to debunk the theory and i WILL pass them on to the newspapers here that are mentioning this conspiracy theory,

my speculations, well, they are just my speculations on the stuff we have seen here so far

this is the backroom,
it's where we air junk like this and NOTE : i did ask for people to debunk it for me

B.

[Don Corleone]

What evidence, besides the Hitler speech soundtrack, do your sites offer that haven't been presented and refuted earlier? Just because it's been republished someplace new doesn't make it any more true, or any less hateful.

[Adrian II]

What evidence, besides the Hitler speech soundtrack, do your sites offer that haven't been presented and refuted earlier? Just because it's been republished someplace new doesn't make it any more true, or any less hateful.

Don, will you stop this please? Barocca is asking for information on a subject he has only just been confronted with, and he makes it clear that he doesn't buy nonsense about the U.S. government orchestrating the thing. Can you just give him a break? We can't all be as brilliantly informed on current affairs as you are, so please forgive us mortals would you?

[Don Corleone]

Sure Adrian. Whatever you say. If you guys want to engage in half-baked conspiracy theories that consider "who was behind 9/11", be my guest. I went through both of his sites, which was where the crack that I made about the Hitler speeches came from. Yes, it's really the soundtrack to that flash video. None of the so called 'evidence' presented is new, it all comes from Thierry Meyssan. It's just presented by new people with new soundtracks. I have nothing else to say other than I have a lot less respect for you all than I did an hour ago.

[CBR]

Barocca why do you hate America?


CBR

[Adrian II]

If you guys want to engage in half-baked conspiracy theories that consider "who was behind 9/11", be my guest.

Just read Barocca's post, Don. He is asking if anybody out here can tell him where to find the best antidote to the disease, and all you do is accuse him of spreading the disease. And now I'm guilty of that too?

[AntiochusIII]

Barocca is just asking for information, is he not?

He said there's an Aussie media (or more?) that is/are showing it, publishing it, etc.

He said he doesn't buy that at all, but still want some more information about it and therefore post a thread in the backroom.

What are you angry about?

[Adrian II]

Barocca why do you hate America?


CBR

Hello, what is it with you, my friends? Is it something in the water? Barocca is asking us how best to debunk a conspiracy. Instead of getting some useful answers he is being accused of promoting it. You guys are 'seeing things', I tell you.

[CBR]

Sorry I forgot the


CBR

[Adrian II]

Sorry I forgot the


CBR

[Proletariat]

How stupid do you have to be to believe this non-sense?

We can't even evacuate a city that was about to get a dose from Mother Nature, yet our Govt is savvy enough to pull this off?

Serious. I think you'd have to be about three genes from being a monkey to give this a second thought.

Please let us know about what kind of responses you receive (if any) from the papers about this, barroca. I'm pretty curious. I wouldn't wrap a goldfish in anything that actually propagated this pure idiocy.

(Don, lighten up! From post one he disassociated himself from the nutjobs that are spreading this foolishness.)

[Don Corleone]

Maybe I can use another touchy subject to express to you why this has me so offended...

What follows is satire. I in no way espouse the theories mentioned and find them offensive and dangerous. I am attempting to describe how these 9/11 consipiracies come across to me in terms you might actually understand

Hey guys, I was just surfing around the web, and I found this interesting new website. I'd heard about it in the news, and apparently, it's got quite a following.

Anyway, there's this Brittish author, David Irving, who wrote an important book. In it, he shows that while yes, some Germans did kill some Jews, this whole notion that there was an organized campaign by the Nazis to kill Jews has been deliberately overblown, to make the case for the creation of Israel.

Now, I have no issues with Jews. I don't think they invented the holocaust, but Irving raises some good points that I haven't heard answered yet. Does anyone want to join me in a rational discussion about how the Jews didn't really suffer all that bad during the holocaust?

[Adrian II]

Does anyone want to join me in a rational discussion about how the Jews didn't really suffer all that bad during the holocaust? [/I]

You are misstating Barocca's question. He doesn't want a discussion of whether the U.S. was really hit on 9/11. He wants to know if anyone can help him find out about the details. Not you, apparently.

[Redleg]

Ser Clegane has already provided the link to Snoopes

barocca The video in your first link is just a new package on the same old conspricary about the United States Government causing the crash that hit the pentagon. Snoopes take on it is still valid.


Same thing as your second link - all the information in both links were circulated across the internet within 3 monthes of the 9-11 attacks. It seems that some knuckleheads in your part of the world have decided to resurface it.

It should be discounted as the progaganda that it obviousily is.

[Don Corleone]

Excuse me Adrian. Allow me to alter the last line of my satire.

Now, many people are claiming that the Jews did die in large numbers, but they were killed by their own leadership. I don't believe that, I figure there must have been some crazed jew who went among them and killed them off. Maybe I'm even wrong and it just might have been the Nazis. Anyone care to discuss it?

[Adrian II]

Excuse me Adrian. Allow me to alter the last line of my satire.

You better swallow it whole, Don. You have yet to prove that Barocca is spreading lies. If you can't, you had better apologise.

[Redleg]

Don

As a person who also tends to over-react to certain statements - let me state while I to found it offensive that some knucklehead in Australia was again spreading the same bad propaganda about the Pentagon that has been debunk numerous times - you are indeed over-reacting to barroca's question.

He did ask this question

can anyone provide photo's to refute the allegations on these sites?

now he should be able to ask such a question without getting attack. If he wishes to discount the information provided by Ser Clegane with his link to Snoopes - well then shame on him to falling for old proganda in a brand new wrapping. But barroca has said he discounted the information - only that it was not making the news in his area of the world.

Cut him some slack - and if you can not apologize for over-reacting (which I would not find fault with you at all for) at least stop taking insult at his question.

[Don Corleone]

I thought the Snopes website did just that. If you really expect me to go through that piece of filth video with the Hitler speeches and document each claim they make and refute them one by one, you've got another thing coming.

Baroca's whole point was "well, these websites just made the news in Australia. In them, they claim the American government staged the Pentagon attack. Barocca then said:

but i think the pentagon was kamikaze'd by a US air force fighter and the Gov. will not admit it simply because that would be devestating to morale

The 'evidence' offered on those sites is borrowed (most likely without permission) from Thierry Mayssen. Whether you accept their explanation or Barocca's in either case, you're accepting that it wasn't the terrorists (who, for the record have claimed responsibility and left behind documents in Afghanistan showing how they planned the whole affair). This leads us, naturally, to the 'theory' that it wasn't Islamic terrorists who flew the planes into the twin towers. Msr. Mayssen claims that was the work of the CIA and Mossad, working in conjunction. I don't know who Barocca ascribes that part of the puzzle to, and frankly, I don't care.

I can refute these claims until I'm blue in the face, as they've already been refuted, numerous times. It won't matter. Conspiracy theories flourish because they can never be 100% disproved. You can prove that I "did" take a crap this morning, but you cannot prove that I did not (you can only offer much more likely alternatives). What's more, I may have flown off the handle at Barocca some, but whenever I see this garbage, I always ask myself "Why would somebody entertain these notions that 1) are highly, highly speculative and 2) a brief search of the web will show to be concocted ex post facto". It's the 'why' that makes me so angry. Why do people insist that it was the CIA and Mossad that blew up the WTC, Adrian? Hmm?

[Adrian II]

Why do people insist that it was the CIA and Mossad that blew up the WTC, Adrian? Hmm?

Do you want the real answer to that or the fashionable one? The fashionable one would be that Arabs and muslims are so stupid they believe any propaganda about the CIA and the Mossad. The real answer, my friend, is far more disturbing. Mmany Arabs and muslims (but Arabs in particular) have such a dim view of themselves and their culture's accomplishments that they think Arabs would be too stupid to pull off a '9/11'. Go figure.

I first read this at the end of 2001 in an article by Pakistani leftwing writer and journalist Tariq Ali, who was constantly confronted by what he called 'our people' (mostly subcontinental muslims) with questions about the CIA's and the Mossad's involvement in 9/11. He always countered the question and asked them why they thought the perpetrators could not have been Muslims? The answer was invariably that 'our people' had such a low self-esteem that they didn't think any of them could pull it off.

[Proletariat]

The answer was invariably that 'our people' had such a low self-esteem that they didn't think any of them could pull it off.

Do you believe this?

[Don Corleone]

Thiery Maysson is no Arab or Pakastani, and neither is a large portion of the folks who advocate these theories. They're Europeans. There's plenty of American scum that are out there tossing this manure around too. None of whom have self-esteem issues. The one thing they all DO have in common is that they hate the US so much, they cannot accept the fact that event happened that might generate sympathy for America and they will do whatever they can to change that.

It has a nice emotional appeal "oh, poor arabs, they think so little of themselves" but honestly, that sounds like a whitewash job to me. Do they claim that Jews are a hybrid and pig out of low-self esteem too? Did Mr. Ali offer any sort of full interviews or population data to base his theory of the 'lowly Arab can't believe it's that capable', or is it just speculation based on a couple of conversations he's had?

[Adrian II]

Do you believe this?

Judging by what I have seen and heard in various countries, yes, I think it is very plausible. It helps if you pour a couple (illicit) drinks in someone to loosen their tongue. You'd be surprised at their candour. Arab populations are used to holding the Mossad responsible for the most incredible little things because they have such a low image of themselves and their nation. Maybe you have a hard time to imagine the despair in some regions and parts of the population.

Allow me to digress, as well as introduce a bit of hyperbole (but only a little bit). Did you know why so many Algerians voted for the FIS in 1991? Because in that year, the state-owned matchbox factory produced loads of matches that wouldn't light. 'So what?' I hear you say. But what if there are no other matches on the (monopolised) market? Imagine being a poor Algerian in a country where no bus ever runs on time, no office ever does what it was set up to do, no house is adequate to live in, no roof does not have at least one leak, no hospital really takes care of the sick, no school teaches your kids what they need to know, no job ever pays enough to help you make it through the week or the month, and then your darned goverment is not even able to produce something as simple as a match that actually lights when you strike it. You'd be ready for change, any change, as long as somebody somewhere takes charge.