Countdown to Open Beta - SENATVS POPVLVSQVE ROMANVS

[Han]

ya I gotta admit they are all missing the redness I usually see in Roman armies looks mad white lol but the Cohorts looks hot man...

[Steppe Merc]

Jerby, rember that most two handed lancers won't have this problem. Few bothered with shields.

[Big_John]

Well, for instance, we're using 107 BC for the Marian Reforms at the moment. Later we'll change these to be triggers based on factors that led to the army historically reforming.

can the triggers have multiple conditions? and can there be multiple instances of trigger conditions for a given event?

[Malrubius]

I can't help but notice the biography... Is that going to be on a few starting characters, or will that pop up later too?

We would like to do it for every general present at the start of the game, but we don't have enough information for all of them to merit a full biography. Later generals will have names randomly given to them by the game engine, so they wouldn't match historical figures.

[octavian]

looks awesome guys!! :D


just a note on one of the traits... "-1 to unrest (has a negative effect on public order)" now correct me if im wrong but shouldn't it either be, "+1 to unrest" or "has a postive effect on public order"

0ct

[RandyKapp]

Sweet

Also notice how one of the occultus sigs has turned into a roman sig.

[Reverend Joe]

"Tell me, is something eluding you, sunshine- is this not what you expected to see?"

Beautiful job with the Romans. Ave Khelvan, moritvri te salvtamvs! (the only thing I remember from latin class)

[Malrubius]

just a note on one of the traits... "-1 to unrest (has a negative effect on pubic order)" now correct me if im wrong but shouldn't it either be, "+1 to unrest" or "has a postive effect on public order"

Yeah, you're right, thanks for pointing that out. It should be "+1 to unrest (has a negative effect on public order)." Oops, can't blame anybody for that one but myself.

[Shigawire]

Octavian: pubic order? What's that, meticulous combing of the pubic hair into a quincunx?


Ok.. ok.. sorry for the primitive humor.. carry on..

[Divinus Arma]

We would like to do it for every general present at the start of the game, but we don't have enough information for all of them to merit a full biography. Later generals will have names randomly given to them by the game engine, so they wouldn't match historical figures.

Thanks for answering my question Malrubius! So, if I understand correctly, you will have a few biographies written for various characters at the start of the game. Is that correct?

By the way, I am totally intrigued by the trait system you guys talked about in the "features and gameplay" preview. Specifically:

To accomplish this, a new system was developed, where each general has a set of Ability and Personality stats, similar to what you might find in a role-playing game. These 6 primary traits are the backbone of the EB system, and they affect the acquisition of many of the other traits and even ancillaries.

I am dying to know more. 6 primary traits? Can you please elaborate?

Also, I think you are a genius man! Thanks for joining EB! Is your trait mod compatible with RTR6? I am playing that until EB hits the shelves.


Oh, and one more note: Khelvan, these previews will go great in a downloadable read-me attachment. If you could throw it on PDF and make it "pretty", it would put Prima's little guide to shame! Do you have someone on this or could I contribute in some way putting stuff together? I'll be happy to elaborate on my qualifications as an asynchronous distance technology-centric project coordinator if you need me to. Yes, I have a life other than alcohol and TW.

[VandalCarthage]

asynchronous distance technology-centric project coordinator

Isn't that like 'telecommunications foreign marketing director of technology and development?' A title for a job that doesn't really do or mean anything

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

asldkfjl...

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a;lkdjr;lawheraa23423JUSDF...



What was that sound? Oh, yeah - the dropping of jaws across the globe.

CA, a "dozen" modders just made you look like crap.









Holy Roma Preview, Batman!

[Divinus Arma]

Isn't that like 'telecommunications foreign marketing director of technology and development?' A title for a job that doesn't really do or mean anything

hahahahahahhahahahahaha

no

[Malrubius]

Thanks for answering my question Malrubius! So, if I understand correctly, you will have a few biographies written for various characters at the start of the game. Is that correct?

Yep, you're correct. After that point, you'll just have to make your own history

I am dying to know more. 6 primary traits? Can you please elaborate?

As you may have seen in the screenshots of generals, we have measurements of things like intelligence, charisma, selfishness, etc. An intelligent general is more likely to make a good mathematician, for example.

Also, I think you are a genius man! Thanks for joining EB! Is your trait mod compatible with RTR6? I am playing that until EB hits the shelves.

No genius here, it's more like building something with Lego blocks. I have certain types of blocks I can put together to build something that someone like Teleklos or Ranika (to name a couple among many) has described for me. Anybody who has the time to waste could do the same things I've done.

I'm happy to be doing this for EB, and I'm glad they invited me to join.




Check the GAFHMod thread for compatibility issues: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...6&postcount=23

[Shigawire]

We're happy to have you aboard!

[Danest]

Hmm, interesting. So if I understand, the Triarii "upgrade" from breastplates to chainmail. This might be the first time I've got a real chance to actually learn things from a viceo game that I haven't seen in too many books (I'm sure they're out there though, obviously). The breastplates were bronze, right, and that was the "problem with them I assume? Middle ages/rennaisance actually went the opposite, moving from chain to solid armor, yes? - but then both were probably iron. Oh, and man, those poor early hastati must have suffered horrible casualties if they were sent in first against a heavy phalanx.

[kayapó]

No genius here, it's more like building something with Lego blocks. I have certain types of blocks I can put together to build something that someone like Teleklos or Ranika (to name a couple among many) has described for me. Anybody who has the time to waste could do the same things I've done. I'm happy to be doing this for EB, and I'm glad they invited me to join.

He is being modest...

And I can say that I'm happy to help him out with this stuff.

[Divinus Arma]

As you may have seen in the screenshots of generals, we have measurements of things like intelligence, charisma, selfishness, etc. An intelligent general is more likely to make a good mathematician, for example.

Okay. I saw on each of the characters here (And on the features/gameplay preview) the following two traits:

1. Unselfish/Optimistic/Loyal
2. Intelligent/Charismatic/Vigorous

So, I am assuming that each new character is born with two traits that determine everything else, and that these two traits are selected at random from a number of other traits, each of which is incompatible with a trait in the same category.

In other words, there are two base trait strings that are compatible with each other. The first trait string determines selfishness, life outlook, and loyalty while the second trait string determines intelligence, charisma, and vitality.

As an example, a character can be born with the traits:

Unselfish/Optimistic/Loyal and Intelligent/Charismatic/Vigorous

but not

Unselfish/charismatic/Loyal and Intelligent/optimistic/vigorous


I also noticed that these traits are generally one or the other. A character is either selfish or unselfish, charismatic or uncharismatic, loyal or unloyal.

This leads me to guess that there are

0/0/0, 1/0/0, 0/1/0, 0/0/1, 1/1/0, 0/1/1, 1/1/1, 1/0/1 = Eight possibilities for each trait category. Combines this with a second base trait category and you have either Eight x 2 = 16 or probably, if you want to be really complicated (which I suspect since this EB):

000000, 100000, 010000, 001000, 000100, 000010, 000001, 110000, 101000, 100100, 100010, 100001, 111000, 110100, 110010, 110001, 111100, 111010, 111001, 111110, 111101, 111111, 011111, 101111, 110111, and so on... wow!!

Many base trait options. Is that right?

From here, one of these many base trait possibilities will allow or restrict the emergence of attribute-conferring trait strings and ancilliaries.

So an intelligent character may gain ancilliaries like "brilliant inventor" and trait strings like bureaucrat-good bureaucrat-and so on.

I am also assuming that the base traits are always born traits, confer little by way of attributes themselves, and do not change or develop like a string.


Am I on the right path at least a little?

[Divinus Arma]

Oh and my math is rusty. Wouldn't it be 8x8 = 64 possible base trait combinations? Or 6x6?

Either way it's alot. And I don't have an edit button.

[TheBagelmeister]

Wow, I've been waiting for awhile. Neato. Each new thing (including this) makes me can't wait until EB is ready, atleast for the Open Beta.

I do like how now Rome is in a single faction, as the multi-faction thing doesn't quite work out so great in some ways. Especially that instead of focusing on a single area, Rome will need to be treated like any other faction, multiple fronts.

Hm, how are the faction leaders going to work? The traditional family system in the game won't work now quite as well, unless Rome is starting out as a kingdom.

[Malrubius]

Am I on the right path at least a little?

Yes, you are. But we actually have 6 "primary" traits, and we just use 2 traits to display the different combinations. They take up less space that way. Although I've seen that you can have at least 64 traits displayed, it gets annoying to have to keep scrolling down to see them all.

[Divinus Arma]

Yes, you are. But we actually have 6 "primary" traits, and we just use 2 traits to display the different combinations. They take up less space that way. Although I've seen that you can have at least 64 traits displayed, it gets annoying to have to keep scrolling down to see them all.

I see. That makes sense. So they are "on" or "off", huh? Intelligent or unintelligent, rather than: complete idiot, dull bulb, less than average, average, intelligent, gifted, genius?

[khelvan]

Hmm, interesting. So if I understand, the Triarii "upgrade" from breastplates to chainmail. This might be the first time I've got a real chance to actually learn things from a viceo game that I haven't seen in too many books (I'm sure they're out there though, obviously). The breastplates were bronze, right, and that was the "problem with them I assume? Middle ages/rennaisance actually went the opposite, moving from chain to solid armor, yes? - but then both were probably iron. Oh, and man, those poor early hastati must have suffered horrible casualties if they were sent in first against a heavy phalanx.

Well, keep in mind, we're trying to describe the evolution of warfare from the Etrusco-Roman army of the 6th century BC into the Imperial legion everyone knows and loves. The muscled cuirass was a product of hoplite warfare, which generally involved inflexible formations duking it out. The change in equipment followed hand in hand with a change in tactics, to make the Roman army more flexible and maneuverable.

I am sure that others can more fully explain the advantages and disadvantages of the Celtic-style chain mail that, for quite some time, became the standard armor of the Roman legion.

The timing of this change can be (and is, if you check our TWC thread) debated, but what is for sure is that the Servian army where the first class fought as hoplites eventually evolved into the Polybian legion with the Hastati-Principes-Triarii/Velites combination everyone knows and loves.

[Malrubius]

Hm, how are the faction leaders going to work? The traditional family system in the game won't work now quite as well, unless Rome is starting out as a kingdom.

Well, the 3-family system was ahistorical, and Rome wasn't the only one of our factions that had something other than dynastic monarchy, but we're limited by the game itself in what we can do to portray this accurately. Rome's definitely not starting as a kingdom or an empire.

I see. That makes sense. So they are "on" or "off", huh? Intelligent or unintelligent, rather than: complete idiot, dull bulb, less than average, average, intelligent, gifted, genius?

No, there are actually 5-6 levels for each of those primary traits, from idiot to genius, like you describe.

[GoreBag]

Looks great. I hope the traits for the other factions are just as superb.

[metatron]

I say this not to be an jerk, but in all honesty... the shields look a bit wide and the capes are ugly :-/ (not that I could do a better job, I'm an imbecile). Speaking of the capes, where did you get your info that they wore them in battle? Every thing I've seen indicates that they didn't.

Also, I saw a signifier (and I think an aquilfer earlier); are there Centurions? An optio? A cornicen? A tesserarius? Vexillarii? Will you be adding crests to the legionaire's helmet?

Sorry for the criticism, but as my sig attest, I love Roma. You're doing a fine job, I'm just really, really picky. :(

[khelvan]

The shields went through a period of evolution; the early scutum was much different from the later scutum that you are used to seeing.

Officers and standard bearers will be added, of course. These are low on the priority list.

[Divinus Arma]

No, there are actually 5-6 levels for each of those primary traits, from idiot to genius, like you describe.

That's even better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like... a whole lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Seriously though, I really do think that is better than just "on" or "off". I was impressed before, but now I am REALLY impressed. This really is amazing.

As a matter of fact, I don't think I could be mush more impressed. I went around running and screaming when the EB team first announced they had devised a methodology for implementing choices of government. Yep. I pretty much just wet myself with anticipation now. Thanks alot.

I hope you guys can fix this building complex problem. Glad to hear the end is in sight. That is promising.

[metatron]

The shields went through a period of evolution; the early scutum was much different from the later scutum that you are used to seeing.

Officers and standard bearers will be added, of course. These are low on the priority list.

Actually, I made a mistake; the Reformed Cohort appears to be using the earlier shields, where the veterans appear to be using the prototype of the imperial shield. So, I commend you for what appears to be a difference between the veterans and the regular cohorts in their scutum, reflecting that the veterans probably did carry the shorter, but lighter shield.

But about the capes and the crests...

[Temple]

This... IS AWESOME!!

But, seeing as you now have a unified Rome.. Does this mean that you have freed up two Faction slots? And does THAT mean that there will be two more factions?

*not daring to hope*