Countdown to Open Beta - SENATVS POPVLVSQVE ROMANVS

[Malrubius]

Thanks for answering my question Malrubius! So, if I understand correctly, you will have a few biographies written for various characters at the start of the game. Is that correct?

Yep, you're correct. After that point, you'll just have to make your own history

I am dying to know more. 6 primary traits? Can you please elaborate?

As you may have seen in the screenshots of generals, we have measurements of things like intelligence, charisma, selfishness, etc. An intelligent general is more likely to make a good mathematician, for example.

Also, I think you are a genius man! Thanks for joining EB! Is your trait mod compatible with RTR6? I am playing that until EB hits the shelves.

No genius here, it's more like building something with Lego blocks. I have certain types of blocks I can put together to build something that someone like Teleklos or Ranika (to name a couple among many) has described for me. Anybody who has the time to waste could do the same things I've done.

I'm happy to be doing this for EB, and I'm glad they invited me to join.




Check the GAFHMod thread for compatibility issues: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...6&postcount=23

[Shigawire]

We're happy to have you aboard!

[Danest]

Hmm, interesting. So if I understand, the Triarii "upgrade" from breastplates to chainmail. This might be the first time I've got a real chance to actually learn things from a viceo game that I haven't seen in too many books (I'm sure they're out there though, obviously). The breastplates were bronze, right, and that was the "problem with them I assume? Middle ages/rennaisance actually went the opposite, moving from chain to solid armor, yes? - but then both were probably iron. Oh, and man, those poor early hastati must have suffered horrible casualties if they were sent in first against a heavy phalanx.

[khelvan]

Hmm, interesting. So if I understand, the Triarii "upgrade" from breastplates to chainmail. This might be the first time I've got a real chance to actually learn things from a viceo game that I haven't seen in too many books (I'm sure they're out there though, obviously). The breastplates were bronze, right, and that was the "problem with them I assume? Middle ages/rennaisance actually went the opposite, moving from chain to solid armor, yes? - but then both were probably iron. Oh, and man, those poor early hastati must have suffered horrible casualties if they were sent in first against a heavy phalanx.

Well, keep in mind, we're trying to describe the evolution of warfare from the Etrusco-Roman army of the 6th century BC into the Imperial legion everyone knows and loves. The muscled cuirass was a product of hoplite warfare, which generally involved inflexible formations duking it out. The change in equipment followed hand in hand with a change in tactics, to make the Roman army more flexible and maneuverable.

I am sure that others can more fully explain the advantages and disadvantages of the Celtic-style chain mail that, for quite some time, became the standard armor of the Roman legion.

The timing of this change can be (and is, if you check our TWC thread) debated, but what is for sure is that the Servian army where the first class fought as hoplites eventually evolved into the Polybian legion with the Hastati-Principes-Triarii/Velites combination everyone knows and loves.

[kayapó]

No genius here, it's more like building something with Lego blocks. I have certain types of blocks I can put together to build something that someone like Teleklos or Ranika (to name a couple among many) has described for me. Anybody who has the time to waste could do the same things I've done. I'm happy to be doing this for EB, and I'm glad they invited me to join.

He is being modest...

And I can say that I'm happy to help him out with this stuff.

[Divinus Arma]

As you may have seen in the screenshots of generals, we have measurements of things like intelligence, charisma, selfishness, etc. An intelligent general is more likely to make a good mathematician, for example.

Okay. I saw on each of the characters here (And on the features/gameplay preview) the following two traits:

1. Unselfish/Optimistic/Loyal
2. Intelligent/Charismatic/Vigorous

So, I am assuming that each new character is born with two traits that determine everything else, and that these two traits are selected at random from a number of other traits, each of which is incompatible with a trait in the same category.

In other words, there are two base trait strings that are compatible with each other. The first trait string determines selfishness, life outlook, and loyalty while the second trait string determines intelligence, charisma, and vitality.

As an example, a character can be born with the traits:

Unselfish/Optimistic/Loyal and Intelligent/Charismatic/Vigorous

but not

Unselfish/charismatic/Loyal and Intelligent/optimistic/vigorous


I also noticed that these traits are generally one or the other. A character is either selfish or unselfish, charismatic or uncharismatic, loyal or unloyal.

This leads me to guess that there are

0/0/0, 1/0/0, 0/1/0, 0/0/1, 1/1/0, 0/1/1, 1/1/1, 1/0/1 = Eight possibilities for each trait category. Combines this with a second base trait category and you have either Eight x 2 = 16 or probably, if you want to be really complicated (which I suspect since this EB):

000000, 100000, 010000, 001000, 000100, 000010, 000001, 110000, 101000, 100100, 100010, 100001, 111000, 110100, 110010, 110001, 111100, 111010, 111001, 111110, 111101, 111111, 011111, 101111, 110111, and so on... wow!!

Many base trait options. Is that right?

From here, one of these many base trait possibilities will allow or restrict the emergence of attribute-conferring trait strings and ancilliaries.

So an intelligent character may gain ancilliaries like "brilliant inventor" and trait strings like bureaucrat-good bureaucrat-and so on.

I am also assuming that the base traits are always born traits, confer little by way of attributes themselves, and do not change or develop like a string.


Am I on the right path at least a little?

[Divinus Arma]

Oh and my math is rusty. Wouldn't it be 8x8 = 64 possible base trait combinations? Or 6x6?

Either way it's alot. And I don't have an edit button.

[TheBagelmeister]

Wow, I've been waiting for awhile. Neato. Each new thing (including this) makes me can't wait until EB is ready, atleast for the Open Beta.

I do like how now Rome is in a single faction, as the multi-faction thing doesn't quite work out so great in some ways. Especially that instead of focusing on a single area, Rome will need to be treated like any other faction, multiple fronts.

Hm, how are the faction leaders going to work? The traditional family system in the game won't work now quite as well, unless Rome is starting out as a kingdom.

[Malrubius]

Am I on the right path at least a little?

Yes, you are. But we actually have 6 "primary" traits, and we just use 2 traits to display the different combinations. They take up less space that way. Although I've seen that you can have at least 64 traits displayed, it gets annoying to have to keep scrolling down to see them all.

[Divinus Arma]

Yes, you are. But we actually have 6 "primary" traits, and we just use 2 traits to display the different combinations. They take up less space that way. Although I've seen that you can have at least 64 traits displayed, it gets annoying to have to keep scrolling down to see them all.

I see. That makes sense. So they are "on" or "off", huh? Intelligent or unintelligent, rather than: complete idiot, dull bulb, less than average, average, intelligent, gifted, genius?

[Malrubius]

Hm, how are the faction leaders going to work? The traditional family system in the game won't work now quite as well, unless Rome is starting out as a kingdom.

Well, the 3-family system was ahistorical, and Rome wasn't the only one of our factions that had something other than dynastic monarchy, but we're limited by the game itself in what we can do to portray this accurately. Rome's definitely not starting as a kingdom or an empire.

I see. That makes sense. So they are "on" or "off", huh? Intelligent or unintelligent, rather than: complete idiot, dull bulb, less than average, average, intelligent, gifted, genius?

No, there are actually 5-6 levels for each of those primary traits, from idiot to genius, like you describe.

[GoreBag]

Looks great. I hope the traits for the other factions are just as superb.

[Malrubius]

Looks great. I hope the traits for the other factions are just as superb.

I'm pretty proud of what we've done for the Hellenistic factions and the western barbarians, as well.

A quick question about politics: how are the various offices going to be represented in EB (consul, praetor, the like), and the standing of various generals in the senate? And are there going to be documents included with EB to indicate how armies of the various nations were formed, as some kind of houserules/guidelines so players can attempt to play in authentic ways?

BTW, I love the work on the various characters, both in the ancillaries and trait format. Very indepth.

I have done some work to restore the Cursus Honorum, but there are significant limitations on what we can do (like making sure there are the correct number of office-holders for each office), and balance issues have to be considered. I guess you can imagine that there are various men, outside your family tree, who hold some of the offices.

I like the "house rules" idea, like maybe only consuls can lead armies or something. Might be too much of a handicap, who knows?

[metatron]

I say this not to be an jerk, but in all honesty... the shields look a bit wide and the capes are ugly :-/ (not that I could do a better job, I'm an imbecile). Speaking of the capes, where did you get your info that they wore them in battle? Every thing I've seen indicates that they didn't.

Also, I saw a signifier (and I think an aquilfer earlier); are there Centurions? An optio? A cornicen? A tesserarius? Vexillarii? Will you be adding crests to the legionaire's helmet?

Sorry for the criticism, but as my sig attest, I love Roma. You're doing a fine job, I'm just really, really picky. :(

[khelvan]

The shields went through a period of evolution; the early scutum was much different from the later scutum that you are used to seeing.

Officers and standard bearers will be added, of course. These are low on the priority list.

[Divinus Arma]

No, there are actually 5-6 levels for each of those primary traits, from idiot to genius, like you describe.

That's even better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like... a whole lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Seriously though, I really do think that is better than just "on" or "off". I was impressed before, but now I am REALLY impressed. This really is amazing.

As a matter of fact, I don't think I could be mush more impressed. I went around running and screaming when the EB team first announced they had devised a methodology for implementing choices of government. Yep. I pretty much just wet myself with anticipation now. Thanks alot.

I hope you guys can fix this building complex problem. Glad to hear the end is in sight. That is promising.