VI - Fyrdmen vs Spearmen

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SauveQuiPeut 21:45 09-10-2005

Here's a question out of curiosity - in my VI campaigns as an 'English' faction I find that I end up totally ignoring 'ordinary' spearmen and even armoured spearmen in favour of Fyrdmen. I just find that fyrd deliver, even while their dead are piling up, while spearmen tend to be shaky

. Of course, that may be just down to my playing style. Anyone find one or the other working better for them?

ah_dut 22:02 09-10-2005

I cannot remember the stats (getting old eh?) but Fyrdmen are better iirc

m52nickerson 22:15 09-10-2005

Fyrdmen
Charge 5 Attack 0 Defence -1 Armour 1 Speed 6, 10, 11 Morale 2 Cost 200 Support cost 62

Spearmen
Charge 5 Attack –1 Defence –1 Armour 1 Speed 6, 10, 11 Morale 0 Cost 150 Support cost 50

Armoured spearmen
Charge 5 Attack -1 Defence 2 Armour 3 Speed 6, 10, 11 Morale 0 Cost 250 Support cost 50

Fyrdmen, better morale and one more attack point then spearmen. There defence sucks compared to Armored spears.

Zarax 22:51 09-10-2005

Fyrdmen are feudal sergeants under disguise, while armored spears are just toned down chivs, one is better for quick attack support while the other is best used for arrow bait.

CountMRVHS 23:09 09-10-2005

Are you sure about that support cost figure? I thought Fyrdmen were cheaper in upkeep than Spears. Maybe you're using the numbers for the European campaign (where Fyrds are available in Early), or I'm just remembering it wrong.

Yes, in VI spears are very shaky. On Expert, they sometimes seem weaker even than peasants. But when you're playing the Saxons, it sometimes is good to build up some spearmen in the early game to ward off would-be attackers. I'm not sure how much they'd improve if you train them in East Seaxe where they get the valor bonus; I don't think I've noticed much of a difference. If you're playing the Irish or Scots, it's almost a necessity to train at least some regular spearmen, as those factions lack Fyrdmen or Celtic Warriors as a decent-sized medium infantry; gallowglasses and clansmen aren't exactly "hold the line" soldiers.

No matter what faction you play, though, Armoured Spearmen are a good bet. They can easily tie up any VI cav unit and wear them down on their own or hold them until you can get a rear attack in place. Once you get AS online, you're in a good position.

SauveQuiPeut 23:48 09-10-2005

I find that I don't even bother with the AS - by the time they are available my fyrd are veteran and I tend to keep building them instead. Feels more 'Saxon' as well, I think...

Martok 02:40 09-11-2005

Originally Posted by musketballs:
I find that I don't even bother with the AS - by the time they are available my fyrd are veteran and I tend to keep building them instead. Feels more 'Saxon' as well, I think...

Yup, that sums it up for me as well. I rarely train AS with any of the factions, as there's usually another unit in my roster that can do the job just as well or better (and still not cost me an arm and a leg).

antisocialmunky 14:30 09-11-2005

I usually run around with an odd AS here and there to keep the Norsemen occupied.

SauveQuiPeut 15:19 09-11-2005

Originally Posted by antisocialmunky:
I usually run around with an odd AS here and there to keep the Norsemen occupied.

Problem is that the AI Vikings are such a short-lived threat before they run out of puff

that it hardly seems worth it when you can build Huscarles instead.

Ludens 15:20 09-11-2005

Originally Posted by CountMRVHS:
I'm not sure how much they'd improve if you train them in East Seaxe where they get the valor bonus; I don't think I've noticed much of a difference.

The valour bonus gives +1 attack, +1 defense, +2 morale, which makes them equal to Fyrdmen, but with +1 defense, so it is well worth the effort.

SauveQuiPeut 16:27 09-11-2005

Originally Posted by Ludens:
The valour bonus gives +1 attack, +1 defense, +2 morale, which makes them equal to Fyrdmen, but with +1 defense, so it is well worth the effort.

Except just next door in Kent you can train Fyrdmen +1...

professorspatula 18:34 09-11-2005

In my Saxon campaign, I used a lot of Fyrdmen. There's very little point bothering with the normal spearmen as their upkeep is far higher if I remember. When armoured spearmen can be trained, it makes sense to use a few of those thanks to their better defensive values, but still Fyrdmen make for good cheap fodder whilst the Huscarles and Horsemen do the real work. Fyrdmen's low costs make them suitable garrison and reserve troops too. Spearmen are a bit expensive for that.

antisocialmunky 23:48 09-11-2005

Originally Posted by musketballs:
Problem is that the AI Vikings are such a short-lived threat before they run out of puff that it hardly seems worth it when you can build Huscarles instead.

Mod them with 1000000k or whatever sum of cash to get them off the ground.

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