Beauty no accident.

[Sjakihata]

As for man being made in god's image is not really right.

well, in the first book of moses, it literally says "God created man in his image", and after all, the bible is the words of God, no?

[Strike For The South]

BP your love affair with Nietzsche is growing tiresome I can barley understand him therefore how good can the man honestly be

[Sjakihata]

BP your love affair with Nietzsche is growing tiresome I can barley understand him therefore how good can the man honestly be

In my experience, to read Nietzsche is not like reading other poets or philosophers. Nietzsche uses metaphors and allegories and spins the languages beautifully (I really recommend reading him in german, since it'll make his works much more like poesi, than philosophy). What Im trying to say is, that you dont just sit down and read 200 pages. Read one or two pages and reflect upon - and supplement your reading with secondary litterature as well, that'll greatly increase your experience. However, if you are able to, I suggest wait with the secondary litterature untill you have form an opinion about his works. Dont go biased to it, read it for what it is - then read someone elses opionions.

[Ser Clegane]

Nietzsche uses metaphors and allegories and spins the languages beautifully (I really recommend reading him in german, since it'll make his works much more like poesi, than philosophy).

Indeed.

I found an interesting comment by Johannes Hirschberger on him:

Bei keinem Philosophen ist die Gefahr so groß, daß der Leser sich von der Sprachmusik berauschen läßt und sich mit großen Worten zufrieden gibt. Was man da für Tiefe hält, ist oft genug nur Stimmung und Affekt, die zu suggerieren Nietzsche ein Meister ist.

I will try to translate:

"With no other philosopher there is such a danger that the reader gets intoxicated by the music of the language and is content with great words alone. What is perceived as depth, is often just sentiment and emotion -and Nietzsche is a master in evoking these."

When reading the text that was quoted to start this thread (and even more so when reading the German original of the text) I tend to agree with this assessment.

Style over actual content - and I have to admit that I am a bit undecided whether the text is just a lengthy introduction to deliver an attack on Christianity in the end, or whether the last sentence is a kind of afterthought along the lines of "BTW, did I already tell you today that I hate Christianity?".

BTW, considering how some patrons seem to idolize certain philosophers, the title of this specific work of Nietzsche ("Götzendämmerung" in German) has a nice ironic touch.

Oh, well...

[Adrian II]

Style over actual content - and I have to admit that I am a bit undecided whether the text is just a lengthy introduction to deliver an attack on Christianity in the end, or whether the last sentence is a kind of afterthought along the lines of "BTW, did I already tell you today that I hate Christianity?".

Nietzsche had to deal with a different kind of Christianity than we are dealing with today. It was practically all-pervasive in ruling circles, academia and public life. Christian notions underpinned just about any debate, even in philosophy. For someone to go and sweat Christianity out of his system, to rid his mind of all those deeply-ingrained religious notions on which children in his day and age were raised from day one, was a heroic effort. I have do doubt that it contributed to his eventual descent into psychosis. He was a true hero -- which should not deter us from criticising Nietzsche in turn, of course. More than any other nineteenth century philosopher Nietzsche paved the way both for a comprehensive criticism of Christianity and for a modern philosophy that acknowledges God's death or absence and tries to absorb the consequences for ontology, ethics, and society at large. We are still struggling with this, witness the many discussions of ethical issues and their religious connotations in this forum alone. So let us take our hats off for this great thinker and poet, then rip him to pieces if need be; Nietzsche himself would not expect to be spared.

[Byzantine Prince]

Yeah Nietzsche was a hero. No other philosopher has had as much influence on other postmodern thought. He is the incarnation of Schopenhauer without the worthless pessimism, therefore the best.
Nihilism without the circular logic and skepticism.

Also people didn't listen to him until waaaay after he died. Everything he wrote was for him first and foremost. Very few other people read his work back then. The world was not ready for his poeticly written, vitriolic attacks on herd morality and christianity.

[Sjakihata]

BP how old are you?

[Devastatin Dave]

Also people didn't listen to him until waaaay after he died.

Not to go off topic, but isn't kind of sad that people, whether it be a great mind, poet, painter, or world leader rarely get any credit till they are dead. I wonder how these posthumously famous people would feel about their fame, whether it would be that of pride or disgust?

[Adrian II]

(..) his poeticly written, vitriolic attacks on herd morality and christianity.

Speaking of which, a bit more perspective on Nietzsche could not hurt. Nietzsche himself struggled with more than just the absence of God. What made his work (and sanity) much more problematic is the notion that man had actually killed God with his bare hands, or at least that is how it felt to him. Apart from the sentation of a horrible loss, he felt a profound guilt as well which he expressed in the famous words from Thus Spoke Zarathustra:

God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. Where shall we, murderers of all murderers, find consolation? That which was the holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet possessed has bled to death under our knives. Who will wipe this blood off us? With what water could we purify ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we need to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we not ourselves become gods simply to be worthy of it?

And while we are on the subject of herd mentality: as a socialist I have learned a lot from Nietzsche's detailed dissection and scathing criticism of socialism, which he held to be just another spring-board for the physically, socially and intellectually weak in their fight against the strong, energetic, individualistic mindset he advocated. Reading Nietzsche on that subject when I was, oh, 20 years old or thereabout definitely put me off all revolutionairy dreams and rhetoric. Many notions of a 'better' society are secretly or openly based on revenge, jealousy and irrational hatred. Nietzsche alerted me to that. A truly great mind.

[Papewaio]

BP your love affair with Nietzsche is growing tiresome I can barley understand him therefore how good can the man honestly be

There is a grain of truth in that statement.

[Papewaio]

Beautiful traits are those that show health, fertility and disease resistance.

What we find beautiful is viable partners for our offspring.

[Byzantine Prince]

I can't agree with that. We find anything that reflects our Selves beautiful.

[Papewaio]

Nope I'm hetro.

[Byzantine Prince]

*sigh* I never took you for a shallow person. I'm a heterosexual too, but that doesn't mean that I don't see beauty in other things then females. Beauty comes from within the person himself because without him it doesn't exist. That's why it's a reflection of the Self.

It's a representation of something within you. So if you find your wife beautiful it's not necessarily because she is beautiful to everyone, like me. She's not. It's because it's an ideal in your mind that makes that person someone beautiful.

[Soulforged]

well, in the first book of moses, it literally says "God created man in his image", and after all, the bible is the words of God, no?

Yes but if you read the little interpretation behind the main text, you'll notice that this means the soul and not the physical image, wich was it's first meaning. But think what will happen to christianity if they interpreted this literally. Let's say the hipotetical case in wich an Alien comes, is he the image of God too? That'll be nuts. Even looking at our own history, taking any given time, let's say the Crusades, chirstians hated muslims, so they couldn't say that the image was physical, because that'll make muslims sons of God too. Back on topic, though this post is not to attack christianity, i tottaly agree with Nietzche, the moral of Chrisitianity has always been based formally on the soul (wich leaded to many absurd ends) and that made many people unhappy. The flesh and the matter is what makes us what we're not an idea of being beatiful based on some superstision. Now: What is being physically beatiful? Well maybe chemistry has some word or two about that, mainly because the decision is on the couple the next human, the fellow man, and not in the mirror.