Pentagon 9-11

[barocca]

could someone be so kind as to explain these two sites to me

a boeing? what boeing? (view the flash presentation)

and

the invisible boeing

can anyone provide photo's to refute the allegations on these sites?

this is in the news here in Oz, local muslim leaders have called into question what really happened at the Pentagon, and by inference are wondering were all the events of 9-11-2001 staged?

I do not for one second imagine US would launch such an attack on itself,
i think the attacks happened almost the way we have been told,
but i think the pentagon was kamikaze'd by a US air force fighter and the Gov. will not admit it simply because that would be devestating to morale,
so did flight 77 really exist?
and if so what happened to it? because, so far as i can find, it sure dont look like a 757 hit the Pentagon.


so what really happened?

B.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Please smack anyone who suggests September 11 was staged for me.

Where would the fighter jet have gone, too?

And wouldn't it have left a bigger mark, if it was going at even a decent speed?

(If it was staged:) why the Pentagon? A really important building? Why not something less vital?

And of course, can you trust the websites making these claims?

[Strike For The South]

Here is some linkage that should clear it up LINKAGE

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Please smack anyone who suggests September 11 was staged for me.

Where would the fighter jet have gone, too?

And wouldn't it have left a bigger mark, if it was going at even a decent speed?

(If it was staged:) why the Pentagon? A really important building? Why not something less vital?

And of course, can you trust the websites making these claims?

Enough said.

[Ser Clegane]

Here is Snopes' take on the issue.

EDIT: I need to type more quickly GAH!

[Don Corleone]

could someone be so kind as to explain these two sites to me

a boeing? what boeing? (view the flash presentation)

and

the invisible boeing

can anyone provide photo's to refute the allegations on these sites?

this is in the news here in Oz, local muslim leaders have called into question what really happened at the Pentagon, and by inference are wondering were all the events of 9-11-2001 staged?

I do not for one second imagine US would launch such an attack on itself,
i think the attacks happened almost the way we have been told,
but i think the pentagon was kamikaze'd by a US air force fighter and the Gov. will not admit it simply because that would be devestating to morale,
so did flight 77 really exist?
and if so what happened to it? because, so far as i can find, it sure dont look like a 757 hit the Pentagon.


so what really happened?

B.

I understand that there's a large population of people out there that so hate the United States, they'll do anything, say anything they can to make certain that they have a way to blame the United States for whatever happened. It's sad to see that they're in Australia and here in the Backroom. As Ser Clegnane has said, this theory has been out since 9/11 and has been debunked many, many times. Despite the wonderful background music & the underplay of Hitler's speeches in the soundtrack, it's a damnable lie created by people that hate the US. In propagating it, you show yourself to count among them. Regardless of your thoughts on Bush, the US government, or Americans in general, don't you think that as the administrator for this site, you owe it to at least publish credible lies?

[Shottie]

Read this:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books



This opened my eyes to what really happened. I'm not saying I agree with it because if there is a problem I agree to both sides but it really does question what really happened that day.

[Zharakov]

Ha ha... The Pentagone was hit by a Soviet ICBM...

[barocca]

I understand that there's a large population of people out there that so hate the United States, they'll do anything, say anything they can to make certain that they have a way to blame the United States for whatever happened. It's sad to see that they're in Australia and here in the Backroom. As Ser Clegnane has said, this theory has been out since 9/11 and has been debunked many, many times. Despite the wonderful background music & the underplay of Hitler's speeches in the soundtrack, it's a damnable lie created by people that hate the US. In propagating it, you show yourself to count among them. Regardless of your thoughts on Bush, the US government, or Americans in general, don't you think that as the administrator for this site, you owe it to at least publish credible lies?

i think you can imagine where i would tell you to put that attitude, and if not Then i will gladly provide a torch (suitably lubriucated) so you can look for the location.

I do not for one second imagine US would launch such an attack on itself

can anyone provide photo's to refute the allegations on these sites?

Try READING my post please before you launch into a self righteous crusade and make allegations against me that are clearly FALSE.


the sites i linked to are in the news HERE AND NOW in Oz

the links you guys are providing ARE NOT in the news

keep giving me links to debunk the theory and i WILL pass them on to the newspapers here that are mentioning this conspiracy theory,

my speculations, well, they are just my speculations on the stuff we have seen here so far

this is the backroom,
it's where we air junk like this and NOTE : i did ask for people to debunk it for me

B.

[Don Corleone]

What evidence, besides the Hitler speech soundtrack, do your sites offer that haven't been presented and refuted earlier? Just because it's been republished someplace new doesn't make it any more true, or any less hateful.

[Adrian II]

What evidence, besides the Hitler speech soundtrack, do your sites offer that haven't been presented and refuted earlier? Just because it's been republished someplace new doesn't make it any more true, or any less hateful.

Don, will you stop this please? Barocca is asking for information on a subject he has only just been confronted with, and he makes it clear that he doesn't buy nonsense about the U.S. government orchestrating the thing. Can you just give him a break? We can't all be as brilliantly informed on current affairs as you are, so please forgive us mortals would you?

[Don Corleone]

Sure Adrian. Whatever you say. If you guys want to engage in half-baked conspiracy theories that consider "who was behind 9/11", be my guest. I went through both of his sites, which was where the crack that I made about the Hitler speeches came from. Yes, it's really the soundtrack to that flash video. None of the so called 'evidence' presented is new, it all comes from Thierry Meyssan. It's just presented by new people with new soundtracks. I have nothing else to say other than I have a lot less respect for you all than I did an hour ago.

[Don Corleone]

Maybe I can use another touchy subject to express to you why this has me so offended...

What follows is satire. I in no way espouse the theories mentioned and find them offensive and dangerous. I am attempting to describe how these 9/11 consipiracies come across to me in terms you might actually understand

Hey guys, I was just surfing around the web, and I found this interesting new website. I'd heard about it in the news, and apparently, it's got quite a following.

Anyway, there's this Brittish author, David Irving, who wrote an important book. In it, he shows that while yes, some Germans did kill some Jews, this whole notion that there was an organized campaign by the Nazis to kill Jews has been deliberately overblown, to make the case for the creation of Israel.

Now, I have no issues with Jews. I don't think they invented the holocaust, but Irving raises some good points that I haven't heard answered yet. Does anyone want to join me in a rational discussion about how the Jews didn't really suffer all that bad during the holocaust?

[Big_John]

i didn't watch that video, but i briefly scanned that second link.. it's funny, that 5th picture set (question #5 or whatever) seems to show very clearly that it was a plane about the size of the superimposed silhouette that made the impact. considering the weight-distribution of the plane, and the physics of the impact, the damage represented seems about what i'd expect from the 757 (or whatever it was). that's just eye-balling it, of course.

i have anecdotal evidence that i trust even more.. i lived just north of DC at the time of the attack. my (at-the-time) girlfriend's mother worked in a building near the pentagon that had a clear view of it. she didn't see it, but several of her co-workers told her they saw a passenger jet impact the pentagon. there are a crap-load of eye witnesses that claim the same. considering there is video of passenger jets hitting the wtc, why would anyone assume otherwise for the pentagon? if anything, the imagery only reinforces that it was a 757.

i would subit the imagery on that site itself as counter-evidence for conspiracy theories.

[Divinus Arma]

I think I can shed a little light on this from my unique position as a collision investigator and reconstructionist.

When I first saw this video a few years back, I thought: "where are the wings?"

Well, after years or training and experience in collision dynamics, I now have the answer.

Here is basically what happened from a simple dynamics analysis based on the evidence (the images of the plane and the pentagon are both taken from 2500 ft aerial view:

Here is the Pentagon.


Here comes the plane:


The plane is about to strike the pentagon:


All of the energy from the plane is goin into the direction of the arrows:


Here is the part that matters. This is the first event in the collision system. As the front of the plane strikes and enters the building, the force of the collision begins the explosion. Simulataneuosly, the heat of the explosion and vehicle momentum disrupt the integrity of the structure, forcing it to buckle inwards.


Once the cabin of the plane where the wings meet collide with the building, a new event in the collision system occurs. The wings begin to fold in while simulataneously erupting in explosion. Because the momentum of the craft is so great, this event occurs almost concurrently. If the craft were slower, the wings would simply explode. (imagine non-motion: just plain boom. Now imagine all motion with no explosion: folding only.)The faster the craft travels, the greater the probablity that the wings will break and fold before the fuel disintegrates them.


In the end, the entire vehicle is essentially forced into the point of impact. It is the exact opposite of a vaccum. Instead of the building sucking in the plane, the plane is forcing itself into a hole that it created through heat and momentum.


So where are the wings? They were forced into this superheated hole! Good bye wings, hello urban legend!

I will be happy to elaborate or explain my credentials if anyone cares.

[Divinus Arma]

And since I can't edit, sorry about the spelling errors.

[Devastatin Dave]

Excellent post Divinus.

I have a hard time believing that anyone would doubt that what happened on 9-11 was faked. In fact, the very fact that people doubt the authenticity of that day shows either a unbelievable hatred for anything American or a disturbing lack of compassion for the victoms of that day.

[Devastatin Dave]

Excellent post Divinus.

I have a hard time believing that anyone would doubt that what happened on 9-11 was faked. In fact, the very fact that people doubt the authenticity of that day shows either a unbelievable hatred for anything American or a disturbing lack of compassion for the victoms of that day.

Since I can't edit, let me rephrase my first sentence in my last post.

"I can't believe that anyone would think that what happened on 9-11 was faked."

[Redleg]

In essence it seems you are saying Divinus Arma because of the speed of the plane - it was more like the speeding bullet - little hole going in because of speed - more damage inside because the building began to absorb the impact.

If one understands how the sabot anti-tank rounds work - it would also seem to explain why little aircraft residue was found outside of the building.

Planes are designed to be aerodymanic (cant spell worth a damn myself) if I remember correctly.