Religious hypocrisy

[Revelation]

Why is it that when someone chooses to not believe in God/religion, the religious fanatics take offence a cry bloody murder?
for instance....

What Nietzsche thought of beauty as it related to the ancients and germans. I found this very interesting today.

47


Beauty no accident. -- The beauty of a race or a family, their grace and graciousness in all gestures, is won by work: like genius, it is the end result of the accumulated work of generations. One must have made great sacrifices to good taste, one must have done much and omitted much, for its sake--seventeenth-century France is admirable in both respects--and good taste must have furnished a principle for selecting company, place, dress, sexual satisfaction; one must have preferred beauty to advantage, habit, opinion, and inertia. Supreme rule of conduct: before oneself too, one must not "let oneself go." The good things are immeasurably costly; and the law always holds that those who have them are different from those who acquire them. All that is good is inherited: whatever is not inherited is imperfect, is a mere beginning.
In Athens, in the time of Cicero (who expresses his surprise about this), the men and youths were far superior in beauty to the women. But what work and exertion in the service of beauty had the male sex there imposed on itself for centuries! For one should make no mistake about the method in this case: a breeding of feelings and thoughts alone is almost nothing (this is the great misunderstanding underlying German education, which is wholly illusory), one must first persuade the body. Strict perseverance in significant and exquisite gestures together with the obligation to live only with people who do not "let themselves go"--that is quite enough for one to become significant and exquisite, and in two or three generations all this becomes inward. It is decisive for the lot of a people and of humanity that culture should begin in the right place--not in the "soul" (as was the fateful superstition of the priests and half-priests): the right place is the body, the gesture, the diet, physiology; the rest follows from that. Therefore the Greeks remain the first cultural event in history: they knew, they did, what was needed; and Christianity, which despised the body, has been the greatest misfortune of humanity so far.

I like it because it's good for my vanity.

Fair post written in good faith.....then...

Is it really necessary to criticize Christianity for the millionth time. Plus this shows your ognorants, God made us in his image. Unfortunately I cannot outright call you an intolorant, ignorant bigot, but you sure are acting like one.

Where did that come from? It certainly does not make anyone an intolerant bigot when they choose to air an anti religious statement. (depending on content and context, but certainly not believing and stating this fact does not make you a bigot)
I reckon you'll find more ignorant bigotry inside the church walls that without.

[Papewaio]

and Christianity, which despised the body, has been the greatest misfortune of humanity so far.

That is a pretty nasty statement and flame worthy.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Where did that come from? It certainly does not make anyone an intolerant bigot when they choose to air an anti religious statement. (depending on content and context, but certainly not believing and stating this fact does not make you a bigot)
I reckon you'll find more ignorant bigotry inside the church walls that without.

While I respectfully disagree with your last sentence, I do agree that quoting Nietzche (whose work was hardly supportive of Christianity), does not indicate bigotry or intolerance. Moreover, though I find bigotry and intolerance annoying, they are perfectly legal beliefs for someone to hold or espouse -- as long as they are not enacted. An Illinois Nazi has just as much right to go out and goose-step through a legally permitted parade as I have to ignore him or her for what I choose to consider voluntary idiocy. Try to make it the new code of conduct for us all and I shall oppose you.

DD, who often provokes a lot of interesting thought and discussion, has an occasional tendency to shoot first and aim later.

Seamus

[Strike For The South]

and Christianity, which despised the body, has been the greatest misfortune of humanity so far.

Its statements like these and most atheists playing holier than thou and disregarding religous beliefs for us uneducated fools. What makes one person so much more educated on what happens after death something we have no conclusive evidence about Nesticze and other promenet athesises are just men like the pope or anyone what makes them so right and us so wrong. You have your beliefs and I have mine but dont try to sneak in a little bashing while talking about something else

[Revelation]

While I respectfully disagree with your last sentence, I do agree that quoting Nietzche (whose work was hardly supportive of Christianity), does not indicate bigotry or intolerance. Moreover, though I find bigotry and intolerance annoying, they are perfectly legal beliefs for someone to hold or espouse -- as long as they are not enacted. An Illinois Nazi has just as much right to go out and goose-step through a legally permitted parade as I have to ignore him or her for what I choose to consider voluntary idiocy. Try to make it the new code of conduct for us all and I shall oppose you.

DD, who often provokes a lot of interesting thought and discussion, has an occasional tendency to shoot first and aim later.

Seamus

Agreed. The first part anyway.
I think what I was really tring to say is that, on the whole, religious folk tend to exude ignorance and bigotry, directed towards "non believers" rather than the other way round.
I personally do not believe in god or religion, but hold no ill feeling for those that do. I find it hard to believe that seemingly intelligent people are influenced by what I regard as an ancient ficticious novel but thats their perogative. Do what you like as long as you don't try to ram it down my throat.
On the other hand, highly religious folk tend to base their opinion of you on your own religious beliefs and hold you in low regard if your opinions on the subject differ to theirs.
I truly believe that ignorance and bigotry are much more abundant inside the walls walls of religious organisations that without.

[Devastatin Dave]

Oh Brother...

[Devastatin Dave]

What a joyess day it will be when the athiests and leftists will be able to load up all of us religious people in the cattle cars and have a good old BBQ. You want to talk about hypocracy, all you need is listen to the left rail on and on about tolerance, but time after time they have nothing but disdain and outright hatred for morality and the Faithful. Jesus accepts all, the left doesn't, sad...

[Adrian II]

What a joyess day it will be when the athiests and leftists will be able to load up all of us religious people in the cattle cars and have a good old BBQ.

Many leftists are religious, Dave. So who exactly belongs to your category of 'us religlious people' and who does not?

[Devastatin Dave]

It's stuff like that which makes me wonder why I bother presenting my views in a sensible fashion now and then. All I get is a pre-packaged response designed to inflame, rather than inform.

I feel your pain.

[Navaros]

as already pointed out by Pape, that sentence was most definitely a slur to all of Christianity and therefore worthy of any "just desserts" that come it's way in response

[Devastatin Dave]

Religion is like a chinese finger trap. The more you tug at it directly, the more influence it will exert.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't think Religion was wrong, and bad for society. Although to be fair, it is a rare non-religious person does not enjoy occasionally expressing his disdain. Let's face it: As rude as this sounds, people who follow religion do appear to be ignorant to a certain extent.

Nothing like being called ignorant and bad for society all in one post, and yet you expect me to sit back like a little church mouse and not say anything. How do you expect me to respond? Now that's hypocracy...

[Tribesman]

Jesus accepts all, the left doesn't, sad...
Well isn't it such a pity that many religeous people seem to forget that Dave , especially those of a right wing fundamentalist mentality
Would you like some examples ? Or are you happy to live with your delusions ?

[English assassin]

as already pointed out by Pape, that sentence was most definitely a slur to all of Christianity and therefore worthy of any "just desserts" that come it's way in response

Hmm, SOMEWHERE I'm sure I read something about judge not lest ye be judged, where can it have been? Turn the other cheek seems familiar and also someone on this board has been known to make posts quoting Jesus as saying ye shall be hated for my sake, or some such.

Besides if we are allowed to quote the bible it seems only fair to be allowed to quote Nietzsche.

[Devastatin Dave]

But Christianity does not despise the body, which is the arguement. "Treat your body as a living sacifice to the Lord", meaning to respect your body, it is in God's likeness. The post by BP was meant to piss off Christians on this board much like this thread. So have fun, say what you want and justify your bigotry. Its nothing more than a Klansman making his arguement to why he hates blacks, why a Black Panther hates whites, or a Muslim blaming all his sufferings because of Jews. Enjoy your hate I guess...

[Tribesman]

Its nothing more than a Klansman making his arguement to why he hates blacks,
But Dave , the Klan claim to be a Christian organisation

[Adrian II]

Besides if we are allowed to quote the bible it seems only fair to be allowed to quote Nietzsche.

Right. And may I add that all I have seen from Christians in this thread merely confirms the original poster's remarks.

As to your point, let me repeat what I posted in the other thread, which is that good ole Friedrich Nietzsche had to deal with a different kind of Christianity than we are dealing with today. It was practically all-pervasive in ruling circles, academia and public life. Christian notions underpinned just about any debate, even in philosophy.

For someone to go and sweat Christianity out of his system, to rid his mind of all those deeply-ingrained religious notions on which children in his day and age were raised from day one, was a heroic effort. I have do doubt that it contributed to his eventual descent into psychosis. He was a true hero -- which should not deter us from criticising Nietzsche in turn, of course.

More than any other nineteenth century philosopher Nietzsche paved the way both for a comprehensive criticism of Christianity and for a modern philosophy that acknowledges God's death or absence and tries to absorb the consequences for ontology, ethics, and society at large. We are still struggling with this, witness the many discussions of ethical issues and their religious connotations in this forum alone. So let us take our hats off for this great thinker and poet, then rip him to pieces if need be; Nietzsche himself would not expect to be spared.

[Devastatin Dave]

Its nothing more than a Klansman making his arguement to why he hates blacks,
But Dave , the Klan claim to be a Christian organisation

Hello, where's the mods?

[Ser Clegane]

What am I supposed to make of this thread?

Is it at all possible to have discussion that involves Christianity (or any other religions) without forming tow camps that call each other "intolerant, ignorant bigots"?

This thread is based on Nietsches statement that
"Christianity [...] has been the greatest misfortune of humanity so far."

This certainly goes beyond stating that he does not believe in God/a god - it rather is a direct accusation brought forward against Christianity and is as such of course rather likely to get a reaction.

Do I think it should not be allowed to quote such statements on this board?

I do not - as banning this kind of statement would be equivalent to suffocating half of the discussions on this board.
I think we had countless threads that had articles, commentaries etc. that made these kind of generalized statement - that a certain idea, be it Islam/Christianity/Socialism/Capitalism is bad for humanity.

Attacking (meaning "attacking in a civilized way") an idea is often the subject of discussions here - things get problematic when criticizing an idea turns into personally attacking or slandering the people who follow that idea (I am aware that the line is fine here).

However, if you post such general (and in the Nietzsche case not backed up) attacks on an idea, you should be prepared for others to in turn attack the statements you posted.

Short version: I expect any participants in this thread and others to refrain from personal attacks and discuss the issues

[Ser Clegane]

Its nothing more than a Klansman making his arguement to why he hates blacks,
But Dave , the Klan claim to be a Christian organisation

What the Klan claims to be is hardly relevant (actually I am not even sure if they actively label themselves Christian organization).

I can run around with a big hat that has "Capitalist" written on it - doesn't really make me one when I actually teach Communist ideas.

Obviously the discussion in this thread won't go anywhere beyond baiting.

Closed