Best MOD for MTW: VI

[Shahed]

Greetings All

What is the most realistic/best mod in your opinion for MTW: VI ?

[Geezer57]

Greetings All

What is the most realistic/best mod in your opinion for MTW: VI ?

I put my vote in for XL Mod, as the GA portion works and the trade restriction helps the strategic AI. Not to disparage BKB or MedMod, both of which are also great (I have them all on my hard drive!). But XL just seems a teeny bit better, IMHO.

[MuseRulez]

Well, I never tried XL mod, so no comment on that one. The old versions of MedMod were great and version 4 looks promising, I'm going to try it soon. I tried HTW and NTW which were ok but not that great for me. Currently I'm playing BKB's Super mod which is fantastic, lots of new factions and units, to bad GA doesn't work .

[edyzmedieval]

BKB's mod owns. The XL mod is a bit down because it doesn't have so many new units, and the trade has been restricted.

[fester]

Well, I never tried XL mod, so no comment on that one. The old versions of MedMod were great and version 4 looks promising, I'm going to try it soon. I tried HTW and NTW which were ok but not that great for me. Currently I'm playing BKB's Super mod which is fantastic, lots of new factions and units, to bad GA doesn't work .

Whats meant by the GA ???? and is there a summary any were thats tellss what each mod actualy does???

[Mithrandir]

GA=Glorious Achievements.

[MuseRulez]

Whats meant by the GA ???? and is there a summary any were thats tellss what each mod actualy does???

You could look in the Engineers Guild to get details on a specific mod. Super Mod:lots of new units, new factions and 3 new maps (old maps with new provinces). XL mod: some (compared to Super mod) new units and factions, trade restrictions so you have to get your cash from province income and pillaging. Medmod: the Homelands system and a total rebalancing of existing units (especially to Muslim factions).
There are also total conversions, they have nothing to do with the medievil age. For example NTW: Napoleonic Era HTW: Ancient Greece and METW: Lord of the Rings
Smaller mods do the same but only on a smaller scale.

[amritochates]

You have to specify what kind of Mod are you looking for, since different individuals have different expectations out of each mod. To illustate further,

a. If you looking for improved gameplay, advanced AI , brand new factions and units, brand new maps and massively increased replayability within the time frame of Vanilla MTW(1087-1453) then the best mods are Viking Horde's XL mod and BKB's Super mod with the major differences between them besides the fact that Super Mod has no grand achievements mode yet(though I do recall reading about a fan working on a GA mode for the Super Mod on his own) being that the XL mod also comes in a substantially smaller Lite version that is easier for dial up users to download, any other difference being purely a matter of personal preferences.

I deliberately do not include the Med Mod series upto 3.14 since I personally disagree with the changes that Med Mod introduces viewing them as ahistorical as well as reducing replayability, though I am reserving my judgement on MedModIV till the full version comes out since it appears to be a welcome change from the earlier versions including the first ever complete overhaul of the unit AI system and sundry other changes.Therefore judgement is hereby suspended on MedModIV as well as Age of Warlords by BKB, since to give opinions on BETA versions is IMO unethical.

b. If you are looking for a fantasy mod then do try out the METW or Middle Earth_Total WAr.

c.For mods that are set in the time period after Vanilla MTW you have two choices:
1.NTW or Napoleanic Total War set during the napoleanic era.
2.PMTW1.0_Beta or Pike and Musket_Total War set in the period
1480-1700

d.Fnally for mods set in the period before Vanilla MTW you have the excellent Fall of Rome 3.0.

So to conclude each of these mods are in my opinion the best in their respective spheres.

[Del Arroyo]

I haven't played the others, but put blunty, the MedMod is sweet. No doubt at all.

DA

Edit : Language

Mithrandir

[amritochates]

Post Deleted by Author in service of the greater good of the community.

[Martok]

Well I only have VikingHorde's XL Mod, and therefore can't compare it to MedMod or BKB's SuperMod. Having said that, however, downloading the XL Mod has improved my playing experience tremendously. The new factions (including unlocking the Papacy and the Novgorods in Early), the new units, and improved AI (it's now better at building structures and training higher-quality troops) have all contributed to making Medieval that much more fun to play now. What's also really cool is that you can still play GA mode, even with the new factions.


I can think of only a couple features that could maybe be seen as drawbacks:

1.) It neuters trade income somewhat, in favor of increasing farm income instead. I personally have no problem with this, however, since VikingHorde did this to help level the field so that the AI-controlled factions have a better chance against the human-controlled faction (as the AI is better at doing farming upgrades than it is at building up a trade network). This also has the benefit of allowing factions with limited sea access (such as Novgorod, the Turks, and the HRE) to not be at such a financial disadvantage in comparison to factions that are big traders (such as the Byz, Egyptians, and Sicilians). Sure I miss the massive trade income, but I can live with it.

2.) Many of the bonuses to units trained/built in certain provinces have been eliminated. That means no more +1 Clansmen from Scotland, no more +1 Vikings from Norway, no more +1 Longboats from Denmark, etc. Again, I believe this has been done in the interests of game balance, but I admittedly still really miss the bonuses that are no longer there.

All that aside, however, XL is still an awesome mod, and I highly recommend to everyone that plays MTW/VI!!

[Advo-san]

XL mod= Many nations and GA
BKB supermod= So many units and historic accuracy... Oh my god!

If you get over the wanna-get-all-the-GA-points syndrome, BKB is the total mod. But the XL combines GA and an interesting map. Depends on what you want! BKB is battle-oriented, XL is map-oriented. Try 'em both!

PS: To all patrons. Be carefull of your comments, this thread might hurt some people who worked very hard and did a fantastic job.

PS2: It must be the third time I ve seen this topic around here....

[Eternal Champion]

If everybody just remembers that these are each persons opinions then everything should be fine. That is why there are different makers and models of every product. There's many ways to skin a cat and each modder has their own ideas to get to the finished product, doesn't make them bad, just different.

[ToranagaSama]

How about the fact that I only get mercenary gallowglasses as my only decent melee unit as the English or that 90% of the units are clones of each other with no variation being brought about in the Unit Graphics(Even the most basic of Modders can do that for heavens sake!!) or even that for amod that prides itself on historical accuracy the use of Mamluk Cavalry as the Egyptian Bodyguard Unit when the Mamluk Era should properly start in the High Era.

But what really infruriated me was the "Homelands Concept"(The areas where factions can recruit their units are called Homelands. ) That has to be the most ahistorical idea that I ever heard. It basically pre supposes that the historical timeline is a fixed constant with no variation allowed, which defeats the entire purpose of the game which is to allop the player to re-create the historical timelines as he or she chooses. In effect what the medMod states is that everything is fixed, The Almohads should not be able to conquer Europe and even if they do so it is an aberration and therefore after an 100 years of Islamisation and cultural integration I still should not be able to recruit any units out of Flanders since it is not a Homeland for my faction. This is unacceptable, and remains so because the MTW engine cannot support this concept, the actual concept that was ultimately introduced by CA in RTW is culture (A concept that has nothing to do with Homelands whatever Wes claims), where one cannot immediately recruit units immediately after conquering the province but must wait till the province is culturally integrated which is the historically accurate version.

Basically in my opinion what the Med_Mod series does is to make the game harder not by improving the AI but by putting restictions on the player's ability to expand. That is according to me just another variation of Ironman rules- something else that I refuse to follow.

To sum up I would just like to restate that this is my personal opinion and others might have an opinion different from mine as is their right.

I wrote a reply to the above, but inadvertently deleted it days ago. Quickly though, I don't believe the poster is being honest in his comments. At best he's being contrary.

First, the MedMod is not intended to be a HISTORICAL mod. Specifically, as I recall, WesW created the mod in the same spirit as his mod for Call to Power.

That is the aim was to correct all the, errors, omissions, and bugs, existing in the vanilla version. Then he moved to better balance the Units and Factions to provide more challenging gameplay. Of course, there were some changes made with a historical node, but was not the focus, and the historical is superceded by the focus upon Gameplay. That is if a historical change was found to be detrimental to gameplay it wasn't made or was altered toward gameplay.

Some whose focus is more strictly upon the historical might find the choices of the MedMod not to their preference, but as I've said their preference is not the purpose of the Mod; and the choices made were and are the RIGHT choices.

WesW's MedMod is superior (absolutely no disrespect intended to any modder) in that his efforts have a comprehesive reach exceeding others. Which is to say that the MedMod is a monumental effort.

The effort at *Corrections* alone was a HUGE task!!!

The *re-balancing* was an equally daunting task!

I do not recall specifically regarding *graphical* changes, though I believe there were some made. In any event, GRAPHICS was NOT the focus. If pretty graphics is one's focus, perhaps Rome is more to one's liking. If Gameplay is the focus there is no better mod.

That said, WesW was so successful in his efforts, that MedMod Gameplay is not for the novice player, nor is it experienced, but *poor* players. IMVUHO, the MedMod is for the Hardcore, or *Committed* player, that is commited to testing and improving one's skill level.

If Losing is not for you, then the MedMod is not for you. Because you WILL lose. You will lose battles, and you WILL lose your first Campaign, with few exceptions. I don't believe I know of anyone who beat the MedMod on the first try. In the early days of the MedMod, people such as myself, very experienced players were **shocked** to have lost.

Many experienced Expert level players, had to notch it down for the first Campaign. I did.

If you're looking for just a casual change from Vanilla, the MedMod will shock you, as the changes are so comprehensive and game altering.

For example, the poster is rather infuriated that he doesn't have what he considers "decent melee units". Well, he still thinks he's playing Vanilla. You will need to alter your approach to the game. You cannot play it like Vanilla. Most significantly, you're going to have to up your skill level to be successful Both your battle skills and your Campaign skills. You are not just going to be able use overpowered units to conquer your way thru the map. SKILLZ!!!

The poster is more focused upon **graphical** unit differences, rather than UNIT BALANCE differences!! Perhaps, if one is historically hardcore this matters more. I don't understand it. Frankly, though I don't know what the poster is talking about, as there is effort made to make the units graphically distinct. Perhaps not to an extent pleasing the poster. Who cares?

Regarding the "Homelands" concept as being ahistorical? He has got to be joking!!

From his point of view he wants to be able to build the Camel unit (forget name) in Flanders; and is pissed that the MedMod will not allow him to do so. He calls this ahistorical. Claiming that after years of assimilation Camels will grow in Flanders!! ;)

The poster is not being logical on many levels, but the main point being he wants to *ahistorically* have acces to *any* unit in *any* province. His basis for this reasoning is that the game is inherently ahistorical, as the Almo never did conquer Europe.

Ok, so he wishes to pile ahistory on top of ahistory, rather than make some attempt at correction.

More to the point, highlighting the contradictory nature of the poster, he rails against his PRECEIVED ahistorical nature of the Homelands concept, while, at the simulatenously, exclaiming his disatisfaction at not being able to build Camels in Flanders!!!

Non-sensical.

The truth of the matter, I think, is evident. The player had difficulty in comprehending the Mod, difficulty in playing the Mod, and even more difficulty in beating the Mod.

His appear to my view, are simply excuses. Like I said, the MedMod takes a good skill level. Those w/o the skillz, will be beat and seek excuses.

Basically in my opinion what the Med_Mod series does is to make the game harder not by improving the AI but by putting restictions on the player's ability to expand. That is according to me just another variation of Ironman rules- something else that I refuse to follow.

The reality is evident. He lost!

Expansion is not restricted. You have to be a *better* skilled player---PERIOD!

JFYI, the AI cannot be improved, as it is hard-coded. What can be improved in the game's overall balance creating an environment which will allow the AI to function more efficiently and closer to how it was intended.

The AI, in a real way, does not necessarily need improvement. RTW, as well as, the new *beta* version 4 of the MedMod, IMVUHO, proves that the AI is greatly effected by the overall balance of the game (including the quality of the battle Maps).

The better the overall game balance, the better and more challenging the AI behaviour. Overall game balance requires comprehensiveness. The MedMod is the most comprehensive.

Want proof? See how poorly the AI behaviour is in RTW? Well that shows how an inattention to balance can negatively effect AI behaviour.

Try the beta v.4 of the MedMod. If you do you will find the very best example of AI behaviour, both Battle and Campaign. Particularly Campaign!

For example, in this version----Alliances WORK!
AI use of Ships is simply the BEST to be found!

Note: v.4 is beta

Also, note, v4 is more challenging than v3.14, and is somewhat more difficult, for the novice and/or casual player, to comprehend and play.

While the posters comments may be his opinion, the basis for his opinion is not factually sound, in terms of the mods aim, nor the manner in which it achieves its aim.

BTW, if the historical is one's focus, then v.4 may be more to one's satisfaction, as the attention to historical detail (in terms of the Campaign map) is extensive. Personally, I find it somewhat annoying with all the historical names. Though, the *more* historical faction makeup to be VERY additive toward gameplay---VERY!



TS.

[Mithrandir]

Just an pre-emptive note,

don't get personal. Judge the MOD's (as descrived in my previous post), not the people who like or dislike them.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Hellenic Total War

[kalifah of watton]

The only mod ive played is the BKB which is fantastic.I will eventually try XL etc when i get an internet connection.Anyway i keep reading that you cant play GA on BKB,not true for me as i have sucessfully completed two GA games(Almohads Super High and Sicilians Super Early)In the almohads game which i won i was offered the conquest victory at 60% but went on to win on GA.I tried the seljuks on GA but game kept crashing at 1321.My guess is that you can play GA on the original factions from MTW/VI but conquest only on the brand new factions.Could the Blind King or anyone else comment on this?

The Kalifah Of Watton

[EatYerGreens]

I don't feel at all well placed to post in this thread, since I haven't even completed a campaign as each and every playable faction in the unmodded game and I don't think it would be possible to properly appraise the changes a mod brings until I have done so. Maybe even a couple of goes at each, given the potential for variability within the game (ie events not always panning out the same way twice when AI fights other AI, changing the opportunities for the player).

Nevertheless, I do have a question and didn't know whether this would be the best place for it, or bretwalda's Region Discount Ideas thread, or a whole thread of it's own.

So, has anyone done a mod whereby the farm improvements are castle-level-dependent, in exactly the way the MTW tech tree is laid out but which doesn't seem to have been implemented in the original game itself?

Similarly, the tech tree indicates a Shogun-like aspect, whereby the Mine Comlplex structures would seem to require the level four castle (Citadel) to be built first.

I can see benefits, in that aggressive factions won't get out of hand quite as rapidly (such as the Byz in Early) with this limitation placed on them.

I also see disbenefits, whereby the sea-trader types would steal a huge march on the landlocked ones and ruin the overall balance.

Some of my thinking about this was inspired by the Repository thread about getting the AI to develop provinces better and it strikes me that a requirement to save funds for (expensive) castle construction before (much cheaper) land improvements can be put in place would change the way in which AI factions behave - in the Early era, at least. More advanced troops may get built as a pleasant side-effect. (AI aims for better farm income but must meet the castle pre-requisite, cannot afford the castle just now but can afford the swordsmith, so it builds that and, if it's armies are still smaller than it would like, it starts training swordsmen).

If this change is tried and tested but it failed miserably, e.g. the AI underspent on early troop numbers to 'save up' for buildings and became a walkover for the 'rush' player, then please say so as this would make it clearly the wrong route to go down.

[Emerald Wolf]

I don't think the progression of farms and mines was intntedned to be linked to castle development as that would have no factual basis in history, other buildings would have necessitated this because farmland is eaiser to defend with smaller unites (especially if you don't want to damage crops with larege groups of soldiers marching about) than built up areas which could come under siege and be more of a handsome target for a large enemy force.

BTW best mod is Viking Hoardes XL mod, no contest. I did enjoy MedMod and Super Mod but VH got it as historically correct as any I've seen. Though for a different time period I still need to check out Italia, Napolean, and American Total Wars.

[EatYerGreens]

I don't think the progression of farms and mines was intntedned to be linked to castle development as that would have no factual basis in history,

That's correct but let me expand on my reasoning somewhat.

In the game, you increase your farms so as to get more revenue and bigger armies. In real life, you improved farms because you have a constantly growing population needing to be fed.

To my mind, the forts and castles represent the capital city of a region and the growth of the fortification reflects the growth of the city but also the population of the region as whole. So, first you have to increase the fort, then you increase the farms so as to support the expanded population.

I've not played a Viking campaign but I was fascinated to note that the first level of farm improvement was called 'forest clearing' and this is entirely appropriate for that era. Coincidentally, this came up in a documentary I watched today, where they pointed out that it took generations of effort to clear acres of mature forest (oaks, etc), using hand-axes, which can nowadays be done in hours, with the right machinery.

In a separate programme, I recently heard that the fabled 'Sherwood Forest' covered a huge swathe of central England, extending far to the north and south of its present-day remnant. So, it's reasonable to assume that in the era covered by the game, there is considerable woodland clearance still to be achieved. Indeed, you can draw on Elizabethan-era references to ancient woodland being hacked down to be turned into a navy fit to face the coming Armada.

One could regard the higher levels of output as representing this continuing process but also don't forget that some prime modern-day farming areas only exist because land drainage was employed to turn the Fens and the Somerset levels into useable land. I would guess that the windmill/water pump technology used for that was inspired by the techniques the Dutch developed, if not actually brought in by Dutch immigrants (William of Orange era), and thus way too late to fit with the MTW eras. Come to think of it, the poor output of Friesland in the game is probably a true reflection of how much of it was still under the North Sea, at the time.

I hope I'm not pushing this point too far but I'm arguing that the overall slow pace of land improvements means that Citadels should spring up before top-level farms. You need the increased manpower to progressively improve the lands and bigger capitals reflects this increased population.

Don't forget that the Normans built literally hundreds of motte & bailey forts, taking only a few months to finish each one and even substantial castles could go up in as little as 6 years (eg the ones in north Wales). I could even argue for reducing the build times on some of these structures.

Of course, historically, all this construction work would be done in parallel so, in that sense, you're perfectly right to say that fortifications per se should in no way be a reason to restrict farm improvements.However, the limitations of the game mean you must queue them one after another, which is something we just have to live with, at the moment.

I strongly suspect that the AI sequences the builds in order of cost. Thus I expect it to build 60% farms (1500) before it builds the castle (2000). Then, it will go off at a tangent and build all the building upgrades until the only items remaining are 80% farms (2500) and Citadel (8000), so 80% will come first. Basically, it's not going to arrive at citadels for well over a century into the game - even assuming it can afford the costs at every stage - if left to its own devices and there's many a player who has probably conquered the entire map in less time than that.

They would have had a relatively easy time of it too - small fortifications, short sieges, low level troop types. My suggestion is aimed at slowing down the player's progress with the economy and giving more time for the AI to develop, as well as redirecting AI priorities so that it gets stronger fortifications up sooner in the game, slowing the player's conquests even further and, with provinces secured all the better, it can sit back and boost its own economy and grow its armies but with better quality troops.

All in all, more historical in that no nation ever did get to conquer all of Europe in the middle ages. We can still try but there'll be less chance for 'rush' to succeed and no easy walkover battles either.

BTW best mod is Viking Hoardes XL mod, no contest.

If that's the one with the reduced trade income and more farms-based economies then that'll be the one I'd like to try first.