Scripting

[Ano2]

I have read that EB will be using a lot of scripting to imporve the game which is a superb idea in my opinion. However will the player be required to do anything to activate these scripts?

[Epistolary Richard]

EB will be using a single background script to do all it's scripting goodness. This will be activated automatically at the beginning of the campaign, but will need to be activated manually after reloading a game. While players new to using scripts may find this a bit unusual at first, for our beta testers at least it quickly became second nature. It was a big decision to include a background script, but the team - and hopefully the fans will also - consider that the benefits far outweigh the small inconvenience. We've also done as much as we can to make it obvious to the player that he has to restart the script after a reload, so - again hopefully - it'll be a short learning curve for everyone.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

It's going to be very easy to activate them Ano2, I wasn't thrilled about it at first, but the system they've got makes it very evident that the script hasn't been run yet, and very easy to quickly get it going and out of the way. It will cause no problems whatsoever.

[Steppe Merc]

The script was already installed in the last version? Hmm, this explains why I had such difficulty in playing a campaign...

[Epistolary Richard]

An early version of the script was installed in the last internal build, however certain measures to make activating the script more user-friendly weren't included as they were still being developed. Nevertheless, at that stage only a few scripting features were installed and so I fear we must look for another reason to explain your difficulty in playing campaigns

[Steppe Merc]

Well... I didn't want to finish a campaign anyway! So there!

[Ano2]

Thanks for the response guys, cleared it up. Given the advantages I have read about, scripting definately seems the way to go.

[Divinus Arma]

For us idiots, what is a script and how does it impact gameplay?

[GoreBag]

Basically, a script is a bunch of code which is designed to impact gameplay. It makes things appear, change, disappear and act/react in certain ways. Depending on the game, scripting can either be very limited or very comprehensive.

Age of Empires 2, for example, had a series of Single Player objectives in each level of its campaign. Upon completion of these objectives, events would take place, like text messages, scrolling to view a different area, gifts of resources or units, or even beating the level entirely. These would be written into a script, which is read by the program and interpreted (if written properly) into the desired effect.

[Reverend Joe]

I think it's a program that helps the campaign AI do stuff.

[Divinus Arma]

I see. So it is a set of conditions in the campaign.

Once conditions are met, the game recognized a signal that goes from "off" to "on", which triggers an event. Is that correct?

[kayapó]

I see. So it is a set of conditions in the campaign.

Once conditions are met, the game recognized a signal that goes from "off" to "on", which triggers an event. Is that correct?

Yes.

But keep in mind the "conditions" are limited by the game engine. It's not like we are free to create any kind of condition. And the effects are also limited.

[GoreBag]

It was brought up a little while ago that scripting is even more limited in RTW than other programs because there is no "or" function. I can't even begin to imagine how much more coding must be done to cover all the options that a few "or" lines would easily accomplish.

Kayapó, are you really a pagan?

[kayapó]

Kayapó, are you really a pagan?

Well, yes...

[GoreBag]

No, really. There are only so many pagan religions left intact. I'm legitimately interested.

[kayapó]

No, really. There are only so many pagan religions left intact. I'm legitimately interested.

There aren't actually any pagan religions nowadays. If not only for the fact that "pagan" is a somewhat pejorative term used to group the "tribal" ways to look at "magical" cultural manifestations.

Since, more or less, the middle of the 20th century the way academics and researchers look at different cultures has changed radicaly. We left the positivism and pragmatism of the 19th century behind to experience a new era of cultural relativism. Every single science has been touched by these changes. From fisics to biology, from economy to history.

I study native South American tribes, and I come into contact with many (really a lot) of different forms of "religious" expressions. I also live in a country that has a strong african influence and in a particular city where this influence is everywhere. In music, in religion, in popular ways, in the society as a hole.

I don't believe in things being left intact though. Society to me is a living organism, it is in constant movement and forever recreating itself.
I have absolutly no evolutionistic regard to culture.

I don't think I really answered your question.
Here is a site I found with some explanation in english about what you could say is "my religion". Even if I think it is much more a philosophycal way to look at life than a "religion". http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Candombl%E9
I don't agree with everything that is said there, but it is mostly correct.

Hope that answers your question. If you have more indept interest on south american pre-colombian religion or african I can point you to some good reading.
If you are interested in knowing more about Candomblé I suggest these books as starters:
"Le Candomblé de Bahia : Brèsil", Roger Bastide
"African Civilisations In the New World", Roger Bastide
"Images du Nordeste mystique en noir et blanc", Roger Bastide
"Dieux D'Afrique", Pierre Fatumbi Verger

On that site I gave you there are some good links too.

kayapó

[GoreBag]

Well, I would say Hinduism and Shintoism are pagan religions.

Ah, I understand. I didn't know Macumba was a specific cult, though - not straight-cut paganism in an ethnocentric sense. Have you ever seen the music video for Sepultura's Ratamahatta? I've been intrigued by its imagery and references to folklore since I first saw it, but I don't know which culture or religion to which they many images refer. Is Candomblé that culture?

Personally, I've wanted to know more about the notion of zombies from a very young age. I have a rough idea of its etymological origins, and that Macumba and Vodoun both carry some belief in the idea. Does Candomblé?

I hope you don't mind my questions.

[kayapó]

I don't mind. But one could say we are driffitting way off-topic...

Macumba is the generic name given to the more "magical" part of some rituals. And it is the name by which "common sense" calls most religions with some form of african descendency in Brazil. Candomblé is called Macumba in some parts of the country.

As for any religion being "pagan":

"Within a European Christian context, paganism is a catch-all term which has come to connote a broad set of not necessarily compatible religious beliefs and practices (see Cult (religion)) of a natural religion (as opposed to a revealed religion of a text), which are usually, but not necessarily, characterized by polytheism and, less commonly, animism. There is little organized "-ism" in paganism." - http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Paganism

That is what I meant before. Pagan is a generic term used to describe non-"book religions". Hinduism is actually a book religion.

The liturgical trance, which is what I think you mean by zombie , is a big part of most of this religions that came from the Gold Coast of Africa. It varies from place to place. In Cuba, for example, there is no incorporation.
In Brazil there are many different forms of Candomblé. It varies a little from region to region. And the name changes a little too. Some of it's names are: Batuque, Macumba, Maracatu, Xango among others.

I haven't seen the images on Sepultura's video (not really my thing ) but if you would like to see images and read about liturgical trance try one of the many photographic books of Pierre Fatumbi Verger. They should be easy enough to find anywhere that has a good library or bookstore with imported books .

[GoreBag]

Well, yeah, we're off-topic. I don't mind.

I'm familiar with the liturgical trance, actually, and while zombification is similar, it's not the same. Zombification seems to be more of a folklore thing, but enough of it has been documented or witnessed to present some thought to the contrary. It deals usually with a form of resurrection or semi-paralysis.

Hinduism is pagan in the sense that it is the first religion produced by a culture, and therefore "natural", in the sense described by your citation. It's now a complex religion, but I would contest that that is a criterion. Etymologically, "pagan" refers to a Latin term that simply means "one who clings to the old ways".

Yeah, I thought that I was kind of stabbing in the dark with the Sepultura reference - I don't listen to Sepultura either. It's an interesting video, though, if you can manage to find a copy of it.

Thanks for answering my questions.

[Simetrical]

It was brought up a little while ago that scripting is even more limited in RTW than other programs because there is no "or" function. I can't even begin to imagine how much more coding must be done to cover all the options that a few "or" lines would easily accomplish.

Well, not precisely. "or"s do exist, they just can't be nested. So you can say "X or Y", "X or Y or Z", or "X and Y and Z" and probably have it work right, but "X or Y and Z" and "X or not Y and Z" are chancy. There are other absences that are really more important; chiefly, there are sharp limitations on what triggers, conditions, and commands are available to us, but there are other omissions glaring from the point of view of a proper scripting language.

First, probably most importantly, there are no proper variables―not ones that can take their input from a trigger event or have their contents used for a command, so basically only settable and checkable in conditionals, and even those only in the script file (no checking them in the building files, say). There are no nested conditionals, as mentioned. A lack of "for"s goes without saying. Plus, of course, there's the business of being unable to restart the script automatically upon game load.

All this means that the season-change script (for instance) is thousands upon thousands of lines, although that's more due to a lack of reasonable variables than anything. One trigger per turn in the game, I believe, from the first up to some arbitrary point or another. The building files, too, are staggeringly large to account for comparable limitations in those files' conditionals. Fortunately we haven't noticed any slowdown from any of this.

Anyway, the basic point is that the RTW scripting language was not intended to be used for anything beyond the prologue and "show me how" scripts. These purposes were by nature not particularly demanding, they didn't have to account for unpredictable conditions, and we have to live with that. A shame, really.

I don't agree with everything that is said there . . .

Then edit it.

[Ano2]

Back on topic (A very scenic detoir, but we must get back to business) can scripts come into play randomly, or do they have to come into play once the prequisites are in place? I am especially talking about the effects scripts have on A.I. (Come to think of it do they even get the scripts?).

[Epistolary Richard]

Well, not precisely. "or"s do exist, they just can't be nested. So you can say "X or Y", "X or Y or Z", or "X and Y and Z" and probably have it work right, but "X or Y and Z" and "X or not Y and Z" are chancy.

Simetrical is, of course, referring to the coding used in export_descr_buildings. The RTW language used in files such as the prologue campaign script and show me scripts do not have an 'or'.

[The_Mark]

And then there is the curious thing that some commands that need settlement names as parametres need the internal name and some commands the extern name, with all diacritics and accents but won't accept names with a whitespace..

[Simetrical]

Simetrical is, of course, referring to the coding used in export_descr_buildings. The RTW language used in files such as the prologue campaign script and show me scripts do not have an 'or'.

They don't? The EDCT.txt and EDA.txt triggers have them, I thought they used the same syntax.

[Malrubius]

So can you do something like:

Condition SettlementName Rome
       or SettlementName Sparta
       or SettlementName Athens

or

Condition SettlementName (Rome or Sparta or Athens)

?


I tried this:

Condition FactionType (carthage or numidia)

once before and got an error message on exit. The original traits and ancillaries files didn't include any "or" conditions, did they?

[LorDBulA]

There is no OR in RTW Script in any shape of form.
I wish there was. As Simetrical said RTW scripting is extramly limited.
If it was more flexible we could do really great stuff.
But as Simetrical said it was designed only for Prolog and for this purpos its more then enough, so there is no need to bash CA about it

Damn if CA would make RTW expansion only about fixing bugs, adding more faction slots, possibility of defining new cultures and adding factions to them at will, making scripts much more advanced for moding purpuses, rising some other limitations withought adding new campaings etc..
I bet that all mods would switch imidietly to expansion and CA would sold more copies of it then they will sell BI.