Social Peace

[Franconicus]

So the 'American Dream', that everyone can make it if he works hard and is lucky, keeps the peace?
Is there really an opportunity for poor people living in the ghettoes? You know I am from Europe and from the distance the picture may be wrong. But my impression is that there are quiet a lot people uneducated, living in crime without a chance to improve their situation.

[Devastatin Dave]

So the 'American Dream', that everyone can make it if he works hard and is lucky, keeps the peace?
Is there really an opportunity for poor people living in the ghettoes? You know I am from Europe and from the distance the picture may be wrong. But my impression is that there are quiet a lot people uneducated, living in crime without a chance to improve their situation.

yes, there is opportunity if you work for it. Many successful people have achieved the so called American dream by working hard and educating themselves. Its not luck or handouts from the government that makes most successful as many would want you to believe.
I think it this vision of the "American Dream" keeps the peace because how can you progress if you are in jail or dead from being a violent criminal?

[Don Corleone]

There's a difference in perceived responsbility between Europe and the US. In Europe, when the Jones's outclass you, you rail against 'social injustice' and the BMW gap, claiming it's the role of government to make certain if one family has a luxury sedan, all must have one. Here, we tend to accept that if we want a luxury sedan, it's up to us to go out and do the things necessary to accrue the wealth to buy one.

I'm oversimplifying, but not a great amount. I do not view the fact that Donald Trump is as wealthy as he is as a great social injustice and I do not begrudge him what he has.

Also, don't forget, even to be poor in America is pretty damned good. You can earn more on welfare in the US then you can being a mid-to-upper level employee in many countries. Where else would they consider satellite/expanded cable service to be a required service?

The people in America that have it tough are the working poor or those who choose to unplug from the system.

[yesdachi]

I think that there are lots of contributing factors to the US keeping social peace. I was trying to think of “the one” but cant, there are too many that keep flip flopping for me, so I will list a few.

1. “The American dream” as mentioned already is a big one. Knowing that you can be more than you are if you work at it and seeing examples is inspirational.
2. Distractions. Anyone unhappy with something/anything can quickly forget their woes by watching TV, radio, games, sports, etc. (drugs, alcohol, sex, etc.)
3. Physical security. Although not as safe as we sometimes think we are, the fact that most of America has a low crime rate and we don’t worry about invasion from Canada makes us feel safe.
4. Financial security. No one likes to be in the poor house but we know no matter how bad we screw up our finances there is always a way to get them fixed. Credit cards, bankruptcy, welfare, etc.
5. Selfish. I think that in general, Americans are selfish and unless they are directly effected by some kind of outrage they wont act. Taking care of their own business is priority #1, weather it is school, work, family whatever there is not enough time in the day to do everything we “need” to do, who has time to be part of a revolution or cause. Which leads me to the most important #.
6. Independent. Americans are fiercely independent and even when organized in a group it quickly fractures when pushed. We don’t like to be told what to do. The biggest reason IMO that we haven’t had a major revolution or reform is because we are free thinking independent people. If there are 100 people who all want reform there will be 100 different ideas of what that reform will be, then nothing gets done. When we do organize and move toward a goal it usually doesn’t last and we go back to our own agendas after an easy solution is found.

Unless there is a MAJOR event to threaten our way of life, we will always have social peace. It’s just too much work to have anything else.

[Lazul]

I dont think that any person can ever deserve as much money as Bill Gates of Trump has, but seeing as we live in this system, they have it, and there is no right to take it away from them.

The system we live in now in the western world, or the whole world for that matter is based on the fact that everyone cant have it good. We are pretty much stuck in a system where a few lucky are rich, then there is a huge chunk of fairly rich then the rest of the worlds population is poor... or really poor, starving.

Now as long as there is this huge injustice of the western world raping the rest of the world more or less there will allways be a conflict between the higher ranks of the world and lower in some manner. There will be those that only can blame themselfs for the poor budget, and those that have been treated unfairly.

How do you solve such a problem, well to do that without changing the system in a radical way you have to relay on the rich to spend their money in such a manner it ends up with the poor whom in turn can spend their money so that not all of it ends up at the rich man again.
Also, if the really, stupidly rich, would spend more money on helping society instead of buying boats, privet jets, the newest car, the newest of everything bla bla bla, the poor would not look at the rich as greedy sons of bitches.

One could say that the rich have themself to blame for the hatred the poor have against them. And some Poor has to realise they cant allways have everything the commercials try and sell them and what they see on TV.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

INow as long as there is this huge injustice of the western world raping the rest of the world more or less there will allways be a conflict between the higher ranks of the world and lower in some manner. There will be those that only can blame themselfs for the poor budget, and those that have been treated unfairly.

How do you solve such a problem, well to do that without changing the system in a radical way you have to relay on the rich to spend their money in such a manner it ends up with the poor whom in turn can spend their money so that not all of it ends up at the rich man again.
Also, if the really, stupidly rich, would spend more money on helping society instead of buying boats, privet jets, the newest car, the newest of everything bla bla bla, the poor would not look at the rich as greedy sons of bitches.

One implied premise of your stance is that economics is a zero-sum game. If it truly were, than a capitalist system wherein a few have much and many have little would be morally inappropriate. Economics is not, however, a zero-sum game. Transactions and economic exchange build value -- both real and perceived -- and encourage more development. Were this not the case and were economics really a fixed sum, a 1% growth rate would long since have exhausted every resource throughout the world.

Economies run the greatest risk, achieve the least good, and generate the smallest amount of growth when money is frozen and unable to transact. The ancient kings hoarding money were harming their economies (however much value they gained personally from a large reserve to buy soldiers). The Romans, by contrast, were heavily capitalized -- their money went to work and did not sit idle. Even though they often had a cash crisis when trying to raise armies "under the gun," their economy was far better developed than many of their peers -- and it showed in their persistence and resourcefulness.

So, economic transaction will probably make more money for the capitalists like Trump than I shall ever see, but if the overall growth of the economy betters my situation, wherein is the crime? Trump's success does not subtract from my ability to get ahead. Moreover, with luck, hard work, and a better idea, maybe I could do as well or better than he or Gates.

Does someone from a disadvantaged economic background have a tougher path to success? Surely. But I can earn an education, get a better job than my mom had, set a bit aside and make sure my kids go to an even better school and create advantages for them, and so on.

The American Dream is realizable -- but it is not a handout.

Seamus

[PanzerJaeger]

How does the US manage to keep the social peace?

The poor are kept at a managable level through a mixture of bribary through government checks and fear of the police and prison.

The other classes are civilized on their own.

[Lazul]

The poor are kept at a managable level through a mixture of bribary through government checks and fear of the police and prison.

The other classes are civilized on their own.

So your saying the poor americans are not civilized and they are the reason on their own for the crime or?

[Strike For The South]

The poor are kept at a managable level through a mixture of bribary through government checks and fear of the police and prison.

The other classes are civilized on their own.

I disagree plenty of poorer people are trying to do there best granted the crime rate is higher but genralazations are never good

[Meneldil]

Also, don't forget, even to be poor in America is pretty damned good. You can earn more on welfare in the US then you can being a mid-to-upper level employee in many countries. Where else would they consider satellite/expanded cable service to be a required service?

Well, last time I checked, poors in the US were poorer than the average european poor. And earning more than a mid-to-upper class employee from another country is worthless, if you can't live with that earning in your own country.

As for the last question, basically in every western country.

There's a difference in perceived responsbility between Europe and the US. In Europe, when the Jones's outclass you, you rail against 'social injustice' and the BMW gap, claiming it's the role of government to make certain if one family has a luxury sedan, all must have one. Here, we tend to accept that if we want a luxury sedan, it's up to us to go out and do the things necessary to accrue the wealth to buy one.

Well, I'm surprised none noticed that these might be the reason of the violent culture in the US (cf. the 2nd amendment topic). I'm not too sure about that, but aren't the violent crimes in the US mainly comited by lowly educated people/poors ?

[Don Corleone]

Actually, I was comparing the US to non-Western countries Meneldil. You're right, being poor in France or Sweden probably is better than being poor in the US, in a relative sense. I believe our standard of living overall is higher, but the disparity is greater here in the US than it is in Europe.

As far as it contributing to our crime rate, you might have a point. I will say we have more crime and at the same time less economic disparity in our society then we did... say 100 years ago. I just don't know.

[PanzerJaeger]

So your saying the poor americans are not civilized and they are the reason on their own for the crime or?

Essentially, yes. That is my experience.

[Strike For The South]

Becuase we kick ass