Social Peace

[PanzerJaeger]

How does the US manage to keep the social peace?

The poor are kept at a managable level through a mixture of bribary through government checks and fear of the police and prison.

The other classes are civilized on their own.

[Lazul]

The poor are kept at a managable level through a mixture of bribary through government checks and fear of the police and prison.

The other classes are civilized on their own.

So your saying the poor americans are not civilized and they are the reason on their own for the crime or?

[Strike For The South]

The poor are kept at a managable level through a mixture of bribary through government checks and fear of the police and prison.

The other classes are civilized on their own.

I disagree plenty of poorer people are trying to do there best granted the crime rate is higher but genralazations are never good

[bmolsson]

US pay the price. Largest percentage of the population in jail. The incident in New Orleans is a scary example on supressed social tension, where gangs roam the streets in a time of caos.
To the defence of US, there are hardly any alternatives. Competition creates progress and prosparity, but it also creates loosers and poverty. That is just the way it is......

[Meneldil]

As far as it contributing to our crime rate, you might have a point. I will say we have more crime and at the same time less economic disparity in our society then we did... say 100 years ago. I just don't know.

Yeah, that's probably true (at least that's how things went in France : in 1900, the average upper class family was probably thousand times wealthier than the average low paid worker). Then again, there's probably a whole lot of other reasons that explain America violent culture.
If the immigration rate is as high as it seems to be, then I would guess that's part of the problem. I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of welfare state was another issue, but then, most americans will disagree with me here

Oh, and don't forget SUVs

But, although I'm not american, I kinda believe in the American Dream. I'm fairly sure there are far more possibilities for someone really willing to work in the US than in France or Germany. And I kinda agree that the way we europeans, and especially french, whine and bitch at successful people is quite annoying. I'm all for a welfare state, but you can't blame others because you screwed up your life.

[Franconicus]

Thank you all! This is a very interesting debate!

Personally I think that everybody is responsible for his life, too. However, I have some conditions:

1. There should be equal oportunities. A kid from a family man and woman who ruined their lifes (drugs, crime, ...) should have the same opportunities as a rich mans child. So I wish that there a good and free schools for everyone. Only teh capability should decide to what kind of school the kid goes.
2. There must be some social security. You can be unlucky und suddenly your in trouble and cannot help yourself. Then the society should help.
3. Everybody, even those who are poor by their own faults should be able to have a humane life - whatever that means.
4. Everybody should serve the society according to his abilities. So the strong and rich ones should pay more taxes than the others. That is just fair to me.

[Meneldil]

Thank you all! This is a very interesting debate!

Personally I think that everybody is responsible for his life, too. However, I have some conditions:

1. There should be equal oportunities. A kid from a family man and woman who ruined their lifes (drugs, crime, ...) should have the same opportunities as a rich mans child. So I wish that there a good and free schools for everyone. Only teh capability should decide to what kind of school the kid goes.

To achieve that, new born babies should be taken away from their parent and grow up in a neutral environment. Fairly impossible if you ask me.
This was one of the main aims of the French 3rd republic, and we failed miserably. Even with a totally free education system, there will be differences between a teen whose parent are well educated and wealthy and a teen whose parents are some random drunk junkies.

[Ice]

Thank you all! This is a very interesting debate!

Personally I think that everybody is responsible for his life, too. However, I have some conditions:

1. There should be equal oportunities. A kid from a family man and woman who ruined their lifes (drugs, crime, ...) should have the same opportunities as a rich mans child. So I wish that there a good and free schools for everyone. Only teh capability should decide to what kind of school the kid goes.
2. There must be some social security. You can be unlucky und suddenly your in trouble and cannot help yourself. Then the society should help.
3. Everybody, even those who are poor by their own faults should be able to have a humane life - whatever that means.
4. Everybody should serve the society according to his abilities. So the strong and rich ones should pay more taxes than the others. That is just fair to me.

1. That is impossible to do on a mass level. Only in a Utopia.
2. Welfare...
3. ??? Humane Life? So poor people are treated like animals in America?
4. A rich person does pay more taxes then one with less income.. We don't have a flat income tax...

[Reverend Joe]

4. A rich person does pay more taxes then one with less income.. We don't have a flat income tax...

Not really- a good attourney can lacerate a rich man's taxes. Usually, they pay out very little. Also, income taxes have very little effect on today's rich, because of their alternative sources of income.

I wish I had enough experience to really post a good opinion here- eventually, I will be able to effectively defend the socialist cause.

[Franconicus]

1. That is impossible to do on a mass level. Only in a Utopia.

I know that children have different parents and that effects their chances. But education should be free and good. Why should that be impossible. Why should a stupid rich child go to an elite university and a clever poor one not?

2. Welfare...

Yes, at least so far!

3. ??? Humane Life? So poor people are treated like animals in America?

I did not relate to the US. Just saying that a nation has to guarantee a minimum standard of living.

4. A rich person does pay more taxes then one with less income.. We don't have a flat income tax...

Again, I did not relate to the US.

[Sigurd]

Personally I think that everybody is responsible for his life, too. However, I have some conditions:

1. There should be equal oportunities. A kid from a family man and woman who ruined their lifes (drugs, crime, ...) should have the same opportunities as a rich mans child. So I wish that there a good and free schools for everyone. Only teh capability should decide to what kind of school the kid goes.
2. There must be some social security. You can be unlucky und suddenly your in trouble and cannot help yourself. Then the society should help.
3. Everybody, even those who are poor by their own faults should be able to have a humane life - whatever that means.
4. Everybody should serve the society according to his abilities. So the strong and rich ones should pay more taxes than the others. That is just fair to me.

You will find that all these conditions are met in my nation... and will be even more so now that the people of Norway has elected a red-green government.
As a Blue (right) this means I'll have to pay higher taxes and possibly survive a increase in the interest rate.
Oh, it is so great living in the best country in the world (according to the UN fifth year in a row)...

[Franconicus]

Congratulation!

[Papewaio]

If the immigration rate is as high as it seems to be, then I would guess that's part of the problem.

Definition: Foreign population as % of total population; data for 2000

1. Luxembourg 37.3%
2. New Zealand 24.2%
3. Australia 23.6%
4. Switzerland 19.3%
5. Canada 17.4%
6. United States 10.4%
7. Austria 9.3%
8. Germany 8.9%
9. Belgium 8.8%
10. France 5.6%

So by your logic Luxemburg should be crime ridden?

[ICantSpellDawg]

Definition: Foreign population as % of total population; data for 2000

1. Luxembourg 37.3%
2. New Zealand 24.2%
3. Australia 23.6%
4. Switzerland 19.3%
5. Canada 17.4%
6. United States 10.4%
7. Austria 9.3%
8. Germany 8.9%
9. Belgium 8.8%
10. France 5.6%

So by your logic Luxemburg should be crime ridden?

Luxembourg's immigrant population tends to be european and intelligent.

[Papewaio]

And then New Zealand, Australia, Switzerland and Canada... why aren't they all crime ridden because of immigration?

[Meneldil]

Definition: Foreign population as % of total population; data for 2000

1. Luxembourg 37.3%
2. New Zealand 24.2%
3. Australia 23.6%
4. Switzerland 19.3%
5. Canada 17.4%
6. United States 10.4%
7. Austria 9.3%
8. Germany 8.9%
9. Belgium 8.8%
10. France 5.6%

So by your logic Luxemburg should be crime ridden?

No, but are you denying that immigration might be a cause of social issues ?
As TSMG said, there are different kinds of immigrants. Luxembourg is a small country, where most of the European Institutions are based. If you plan to work for the EU (and there are a whole lot of people working for the EU), you'll most likely spend some time in your life in Luxembourg.

Now, I'm fairly sure most the 5.6% of foreign population living in France came from either Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco or Turkey. These are not really going to get a well paid EU job, but rather end up jobless and living in some ghetto.

Btw, each country has a different way to grant national citizenship, and in France (unlike what happens in say, Luxembourg, Swiss or Japan), it's kinda easy. These numbers don't really mean anything.

[Papewaio]

If you grant citizenship then there is a two way requirement.

One that the citizens will work for the betterment of the society.

The other the society will work for the betterment of the citizens.

So if there is a problem with immigration then one should look at both the selection of citizens and how that society then looks after their new citizens.