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  1. #1
    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Started with a lie

    Quote Originally Posted by evil_maniac from mars
    WWII. France invades Germany, bringing France and Britain into the war, NOT the other way around, as most British and French historians I've read. They don't deny it, they just conveniently skip the fact France actually invaded GERMANY in a rather pathetic assault, then Germany turned the Panzers out of Poland and blasted the French.
    On 3 September 1939, both Britain and France declared war on Germany after Hitler refused to abort his invasion of Poland. France and Britain had guaranteed Polish borders in March 1939. No historian I've read glosses over the fact that these countries declared war on Germany. Whole books have been devoted to that one fateful day and the discussion going on in capitals and military headquarters.
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  2. #2
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Started with a lie

    The spainish american war the U.S.S Maine
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Alienated Senior Member Member Red Harvest's Avatar
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    Default Re: Started with a lie

    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    The spainish american war the U.S.S Maine
    Not really a lie. A lie requires intent to deceive. It wasn't really known what caused the explosion on the Maine at the time, but people believed it was the Spanish. Opportunists jumped on it, particularly the press. Not that some of them didn't do deceptive things, but at the time it was not known what caused the explosion.. The Spanish got the rap, even though it is most likely that it was a problem with the situation of the powder magazines, etc.

    Similar happened with the Gulf of Tonkin from what I recall, although parts of this one might be better classified as a lie. Quite a bit of confusion, belief by the sensor operator that torpedoes were in the water, etc. There were several incidents involved.
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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Started with a lie

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Harvest
    Not really a lie. A lie requires intent to deceive. It wasn't really known what caused the explosion on the Maine at the time, but people believed it was the Spanish. Opportunists jumped on it, particularly the press. Not that some of them didn't do deceptive things, but at the time it was not known what caused the explosion.. The Spanish got the rap, even though it is most likely that it was a problem with the situation of the powder magazines, etc.

    Similar happened with the Gulf of Tonkin from what I recall, although parts of this one might be better classified as a lie. Quite a bit of confusion, belief by the sensor operator that torpedoes were in the water, etc. There were several incidents involved.
    I see I bow to your wisdom
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  5. #5
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Started with a lie

    Latest best theory on the U.S.S. Maine is a slow burning coal fire in the forward coal bunker. After slowly burning for hours undetected (an all-too-common problem of the era) the heat alone set off the powder bags in an adjacent magazine. Hearst did the rest.

    France did indeed launch an assault on Germany as a way to belatedly "intervene" on behalf of Poland, but the event came to nothing. To argue that this was the trigger for the second world war, however, flies in the face of a good volume of historical documentation.

    Seamus
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  6. #6
    Alienated Senior Member Member Red Harvest's Avatar
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    Default Re: Started with a lie

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
    Latest best theory on the U.S.S. Maine is a slow burning coal fire in the forward coal bunker. After slowly burning for hours undetected (an all-too-common problem of the era) the heat alone set off the powder bags in an adjacent magazine. Hearst did the rest.
    Yep, the magazines were not well situated. Coal fires like this are stil a problem for power plants, coal trains, and the like. It is rather easy for a fire to start in a mound of coal from spontaneous oxidation and heating from what I've gathered. Various things can cause a pile of coal to start heating from the inside, this can lead to a fire. I've not worked with coal much myself, but I am aware it can provide its own heat to ignite a fire.
    Rome Total War, it's not a game, it's a do-it-yourself project.

  7. #7
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Started with a lie

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Harvest
    Yep, the magazines were not well situated. Coal fires like this are stil a problem for power plants, coal trains, and the like. It is rather easy for a fire to start in a mound of coal from spontaneous oxidation and heating from what I've gathered. Various things can cause a pile of coal to start heating from the inside, this can lead to a fire. I've not worked with coal much myself, but I am aware it can provide its own heat to ignite a fire.
    Quite right, only a few environmental factors have to line up and then the coal ignites. Can even cause a fuel-air bomb effect if coal is stored in a warehouse and there's enough coal dust whirling about. Living near one of the largest coal-exporting ports, you become aware of this when you see huge hoses wetting down the coal heaps -- open air -- as they sit there waiting for the next collier.

    Seamus
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

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