Federal judge declares Pledge unconstitutional

[Strike For The South]

My god what is this man thinking LINKAGE

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Here we go again, this time in predictable San Fransico.

[Lemur]

Do we think it should be what? Constitutional? Unconstitutional? Whispered in the night to lovers and friends?

[Adrian II]

U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton ruled that the pledge's reference to one nation "under God" violates school children's right to be "free from a coercive requirement to affirm God."

Open and shut. My kind of judge.

[Strike For The South]

Do we think it should be what? Constitutional? Unconstitutional? Whispered in the night to lovers and friends?

It should be Allowed in school

[Adrian II]

Do we think it should be what?

Declared unconstitutional. Outlawed. Banned. Nixed.

[Lemur]

So if I'm getting this right, you believe the pledge should be unconstituional? Why do I suspect that's not right?

[Strike For The South]

Alright my poll sucks but the pledge should stay just like it is

[Proletariat]

I used to care about things like this, but I couldn't be bothered anymore. I've learnt these debates are dominated by two lunatic fringes (like just about anything else) that barely even exist in common everyday life.

The religious who feel like atheism is being pushed on them, and the atheists who believe Christianity is being forced upon them. It takes a certain type of person who really believes either of these things.

Also, life's too short, so Big Deal.

[Adrian II]

So if I'm getting this right, you believe the pledge should be unconstituional? Why do I suspect that's not right?

If I got that right, Strike is going to confuse you even more in the next post.

[Xiahou]

U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton ruled that the pledge's reference to one nation "under God" violates school children's right to be "free from a coercive requirement to affirm God."

Open and shut. My kind of judge.

The saying of the pledge of allegiance is neither coerced nor a requirement. The judge was wrong on both counts. Looks like we'll get to see Roberts overturn the 9th Circus for the first of undoubtedly many times when he gets confirmed.

[Adrian II]

The saying of the pledge of allegiance is neither coerced nor a requirement. The judge was wrong on both counts. Looks like we'll get to see Roberts overturn the 9th Circus for the first of undoubtedly many times when he gets confirmed.

The decisions by Karlton and the 9th Circuit conflict with an August opinion by the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Virginia. That court upheld a Virginia law requiring public schools lead daily Pledge of Allegiance recitation, which is similar to the requirement in California.

[Xiahou]

In 1943, the US Supreme Court decided in WEST VIRGINIA STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION v. BARNETTE that students can't be required to recite the pledge.

[Proletariat]

Heh, spoken like a true non-veteran of the Virginian Public School system.

What's your impression of Virginia, Adrian? What are you taking 'requirement' to mean? That children who sit during the pledge are suspended or expelled or sent to gulags?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Its pretty sad how the 1st amenddments protection of religion has come to mean you cant mention god or pray out loud in school. By establishment of religion the founding fatrhers were refering to things like the Church of England where the church and the government were one and the same. They beleived that religion should be taught in school in fact that it was unconstitutional not to and yet today we deny federal funds to schools just because they also teach religion.

[Adrian II]

Heh, spoken like a true non-veteran of the Virginian Public School system.

What's your impression of Virginia, Adrian? What are you taking 'requirement' to mean? That children who sit during the pledge are suspended or expelled or sent to gulags?

The words 'under God' were added only in 1954 by a joint resolution of Congress. I have little recollection of Virginia except for its beautiful scenery. I suppose if the words 'under God' have no religious meaning, they could easily be replaced by 'under Allah'. Or better still: 'under the Flying Spaghetti Monster'. I have no doubt the good citizens of Virgina would shrug it off, just like atheists are supposed to thrug off the words 'under God'.

[Azi Tohak]

Meh. I'm with Prole. Aren't there bigger things to do? Like a kitty BBQ?

Azi

[AntiochusIII]

Its pretty sad how the 1st amenddments protection of religion has come to mean you cant mention god or pray out loud in school. By establishment of religion the founding fatrhers were refering to things like the Church of England where the church and the government were one and the same. They beleived that religion should be taught in school in fact that it was unconstitutional not to and yet today we deny federal funds to schools just because they also teach religion.

Yup. Claiming monopoly on intrepeting the minds of dead men in a different age. Oh well...

Perhaps they've gone too far and the word "God" should be uttered without inconvenience (unless, of course, they're actually preaching in public schools outside of a clearly-labeled "Christianity" class) but that doesn't mean people should be forced to use the word "under God." This situation is more like a philosophical/political gesture, as in reality I just stand there in silence, feeling no patriotic emotions whatsoever; nor did I utter the meaningless words. It may be annoying to the politically passionate (as me sometimes) but it's really just a nothing issue, no better than things like "oooh abortion!!!" and "gays marrying? NOOOOO!!!!!" True loyalty relies on logical and realistic support, not chickenhawk-style declarations. This, of course, is not directing at you, Gawain.

[Papewaio]

Why not make it generic...

"One Nation under insert belief system here."

[Red Harvest]

In 1943, the US Supreme Court decided in WEST VIRGINIA STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION v. BARNETTE that students can't be required to recite the pledge.

That's odd. Nobody ever said it was optional when I was a kid in Kansas. They said we would recite the pledge, we did so, no questions asked.

The pledge is a fairly minor issue. "Under God" was added in 1954 to distinguish the U.S. from the "Godless communists." Seemed to work fine without the religious reference before, so I fail to see why "under God" should be required.

[AntiochusIII]

You know what's unconstitutional? The fact that they added the little blurb about God in the 1950s. Remove the blurb and restore it to it's original wording, and there's no problem.

Hmm.. could anyone explain the situation behind the adding of the phrase? I am really interested.

Edit: I see, Red Harvest has provided a basic major point here. Thank you.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

...




This has to be the last straw. How long until the American people realize that the aristocracy who controls this nation has been influenced by the dark elements of the world: Atheists, Socialists, Communists, and Left-wing Radicals. How long do they realize that they are being cheated by the government, and how long until the last of our freedoms are stolen from us? Pogroms such as Affirmitave Action, gun control, and now this, are destroying our nation from the inside out. And it is time we get up, stand up for our rights. Viva la'revolution!

[Adrian II]

...




This has to be the last straw. How long until the American people realize that the aristocracy who controls this nation has been influenced by the dark elements of the world: Atheists, Socialists, Communists, and Left-wing Radicals. How long do they realize that they are being cheated by the government, and how long until the last of our freedoms are stolen from us? Pogroms such as Affirmitave Action, gun control, and now this, are destroying our nation from the inside out. And it is time we get up, stand up for our rights. Viva la'revolution!

Isn't it time for bed?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

I love tounge-in-cheekness. ~:D

And overreactions. Lets just revolt

[Crazed Rabbit]

Coercive requirement?! What's the judge smoking?

Kids are neither 1) required (they can sit, stand, and be silent for the pledge) 2) or coerced (nothing bad will happen if they don't say it). Heck, one of my middle school teachers didn't say it (but then she was a liberal democrat).

The silver lining is that this will force the SCOTUS to decide if its constitutional or not, and not dodge the issue like they did last time. (The storm clouds on the horizon in the silver lining are that they may be stupid and rule it unconstitutional.)

Crazed Rabbit

[Proletariat]

I suppose if the words 'under God' have no religious meaning, they could easily be replaced by 'under Allah'. Or better still: 'under the Flying Spaghetti Monster'. I have no doubt the good citizens of Virgina would shrug it off, just like atheists are supposed to thrug off the words 'under God'.

I was just worried that you thought it was genuinely required in Virginia, an impression I gathered from your quote.

It sure has religious meaning, but I still can't fathom anyone reasonable caring. Like when PETA has a protest to change the label for people with pets from 'pet owners' to 'pet guardians.'

Who cares about this kinda stuff? It's pretty stupid 'under God' was added in the first place, and now we compound the stupidity a half century later by bringing it up and fighting tooth and nail over it.

[Proletariat]

The religious who feel like atheism is being pushed on them, and the atheists who believe Christianity is being forced upon them. It takes a certain type of person who really believes either of these things.

This has to be the last straw. How long until the American people realize that the aristocracy who controls this nation has been influenced by the dark elements of the world: Atheists, Socialists, Communists, and Left-wing Radicals. How long do they realize that they are being cheated by the government, and how long until the last of our freedoms are stolen from us? Pogroms such as Affirmitave Action, gun control, and now this, are destroying our nation from the inside out. And it is time we get up, stand up for our rights. Viva la'revolution!

...

[Adrian II]

Who cares about this kinda stuff? It's pretty stupid 'under God' was added in the first place, and now we compound the stupidity a half century later by bringing it up and fighting tooth and nail over it.

It speaks to the kind of nation you are/want to be. Nothing stupid about that, my lady.

[Proletariat]

I'd much more appreciate a nation that understood 'bigger fish to fry.'

[Papewaio]

Just come to Aus and relax at a BBQ with really big fish that are frying... we don't actually put shrimps on the BBQ and we only export Fosters...