Federal judge declares Pledge unconstitutional

**Gawain of Orkeny** · 09-15-2005, 03:45

It's good that we have Gawain to determine what Jefferson meant, and the Constitution.

I dont think Jefferson wrote the first amendment. His letter on seperation of church abd state had nothing to do with the consitution. I explained what it was a bout.

One thing is clear to me. Religion and government don't mix,

Again the founding fathers thought just the opposite and since it was they who wrote the constitution I will go by their views not yours thank you. They know that a good religous base is neede for democracy to work. They believed that government should be a last resort to solving problems not the first. They didnt want a "CHURCH" making laws. Chritains do not constitute a church.

**Don Corleone** · 09-15-2005, 03:52

I think Prole's right. I think the judge is trying to poke a finger in the eye of the religious half of this country, but he only really wins if they let him.

Despite what folks on the Left might actually want, as it stands today I'm still free to go to Church every Sunday, and last I checked, I could say "Thank God" or grace before a meal, even at work.

The thing about slippery slopes.... they're not. Dig your heels in where the fight really should be. We shouldn't have changed the pledge in the first place, but by the same token, the fact that the Democrats are making a big deal out of this shows where their agenda lies...

In the meantime, real news...

Extra!!! Extra!!!! Read all about it!! Republicans abandon any pretense at fiscal restraint, record low turnouts for conservative candidates predicted for next election!!!

**Red Harvest** · 09-15-2005, 07:00

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Despite what folks on the Left might actually want, as it stands today I'm still free to go to Church every Sunday, and last I checked, I could say "Thank God" or grace before a meal, even at work.

Oh come on. The Left and most moderates don't really care what you do personally. It is the government endorsed public religious issues that are at the forefront.

It is real hard to take my fellow Christians seriously anymore.

**Don Corleone** · 09-15-2005, 15:12

Originally Posted by Red Harvest

Oh come on. The Left and most moderates don't really care what you do personally. It is the government endorsed public religious issues that are at the forefront.

It is real hard to take my fellow Christians seriously anymore.

Well, that's good because I haven't taken you seriously for months.

Like I said, I don't consider the pledge to be an issue worthy of debating over. But don't tell me there isn't a move in this country to outlaw religion. Kids get sent home from school just for saying God bless you when somebody sneezes or wishing somebody a Merry Christmas. That doesn't sound like 'live and let live' to me.

By the way, Red, bonus points for misrepresenting my argument. I said "the Left". You subtly changed that to "the Left and moderates". I never said squat about moderates. Please reference what I say properly or don't reference it at all.

**Red Harvest** · 09-15-2005, 17:44

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Well, that's good because I haven't taken you seriously for months.

Like I said, I don't consider the pledge to be an issue worthy of debating over. But don't tell me there isn't a move in this country to outlaw religion.

Oh GET REAL, take off the tinfoil hat and dispense with the ridiculous conspiracy theories.

No wonder your posts have been so hysterical. I see no effort afoot to ban religion. The problems we have as a nation on these issues are primarily from the intolerance of so called Christians towards fellow Christians whose views aren't so extreme and towards those who have different or no faith. These are the Christians who don't seem to understand the difference between the Old and New Testaments, and seem to be focused on the Old.

Why did I comment on moderates? Because while you tried to classify it as the Left, it was and IS clear to me that you feel the same about moderates who have the same view of separation of church and state and have clearly expressed that here repeatedly.