How is phalanx vs maniple in EB?

[Conqueror]

Interesting. So the key to winning with a phalanx against maniples would be to strenghten your flanks by any means and using mobile troops to encircle the enemy, while the phalanx buys you the time to do this? Anyway, thanks for the reply

[Mr Frost]

Interesting. So the key to winning with a phalanx against maniples would be to strenghten your flanks by any means and using mobile troops to encircle the enemy, while the phalanx buys you the time to do this? Anyway, thanks for the reply

It works well . No need to stress over the flanks too much if you have reasonable cavalry however .

Keep your phallanx line intact , put an elite phallanx unit on each flank if possible .

Don't waste skirmish units you might have by engaging the Romans in a classical manner , the typical Roman army has far too much close range firepower and you would be thus throwing them away and wasting the unit slots they occupied . Put those skirmishers behind and to the rear of each flank and if you have several , stack them deep and they can hold the flanks for a supprisingly long time .

Take a couple of units of the best long range missiles you can get {not artillery neccessarily however . It can do the job , but moves too slowly to keep up when your army needs to move} . Use these to thin out their skirmishers if they advance them separately {whilst waiting with their main force to see if you will move on them , possibly presenting an opening in your defense if you do} , but their real job is to engage their main body to make them attack you head on .They also are good for finishing off skirmish units etc that are left over when you crush their main body but are too tired to catch .

If they won't oblige and charge your pike/spears , group your entire phallanx line and click some spot directly behind them and march your phallanx wall into their main body .
Either way , group your cavalry in one big group , flank {preferably the side that has a cavalry concentration your massed cavalry can quickly destroy} , then charge !

A thing of beauty to observe I say !

[Moros]

It works well . No need to stress over the flanks too much if you have reasonable cavalry however .

Keep your phallanx line intact , put an elite phallanx unit on each flank if possible .

Don't waste skirmish units you might have by engaging the Romans in a classical manner , the typical Roman army has far too much close range firepower and you would be thus throwing them away and wasting the unit slots they occupied . Put those skirmishers behind and to the rear of each flank and if you have several , stack them deep and they can hold the flanks for a supprisingly long time .

Well the EB peltestai are verry good you know.
I think if both had unlitimed javelins I wouldn't be surprised if they'd won (well not against the elite troops) but those peltestai are real murder machines if you use them correctly.


And yes if use phalanx in EB or even in vanilla you should always protect the flanks. That's lesson number one in "how to use a phalanx".

[Zero1]

I disagree, I'd use skirmish units out front...if only to soak up the Pila from the Romans that way I wouldnt lose any of my precious, precious Phalangites.

[Divinus Arma]

I disagree, I'd use skirmish units out front...if only to soak up the Pila from the Romans that way I wouldnt lose any of my precious, precious Phalangites.

Why not both? Deploy in front until the first volley is thron, then have them rush back through the phalangites to safety. Best way is to have you phalanx with spears up until the skirmishers are past, then drop points just before those nasty romans charge.

[Mr Frost]

My point on skirmishers is they {good ones that is} can hold {deployed in strong blocks} a flank long enough in most situations and are cheap so you can afford to use the money and unit slots you would have spent on flexible melee infantry {to hold the flanks} on either more Phallanx or more Cavalry .

This works well in RTR .

I imagine the firepower of a Roman army should still be quite devistating in EB .






Note : when I origonally posted in this thread , I was in the middle of a bad bout of insomnia {story of my life !} and exhausted . I actually got confused as to the forum I was in and thought I was posting in a thread about RTR {Dyslexia+Insomnia = CONFUSED ! } .
Should still make sense though

[jerby]

well. readin gthe stats of teh hastati. i think teh days of romans destroying half an army by "fire at will"is over...

but back to the Q at hand. how effective is the maniple(checkerbord) formation against a phalanx in EB?

[Kikosemmek]

Interesting. So the key to winning with a phalanx against maniples would be to strenghten your flanks by any means and using mobile troops to encircle the enemy, while the phalanx buys you the time to do this? Anyway, thanks for the reply

I never meant to state a universal function of a phalanx. In fact, I was very fond of using vanilla Spartans as both phalangites and heavy shock infantry because of their swordsmanship prowess. The fact that maniples beat phalanxes in general relies many factors, such as the sword skills of the maniple soldiers vs the ones of the phalanx, the armour of the maniple soldiers measuring how much spear they can take by the time a few of them start surrounding the enemy, and the phalangites' armour on the other hand, capable of holding out against those closing in to sword-battle while having the majority of the formation still taking the spearpoints' front end.