How is phalanx vs maniple in EB?

[jerby]

well. that outta prove the maniple works in distorting the phalanx line..

i found it a pitty that in RTW my hastati Rout on contact with the pikemen..

have you tried out a clean pahalnx vs maniple? No Skirmishers, no horses? just a solid strait line of pikemen/hoplites versus pre-roman-maniple?

[econ21]

In RTW vanilla, if you keep a solid line of phalanx, you can walk over hastati with virtually no loss. Keep the enemy off your flanks and the phalanx wins easily. I can't imagine that EB has changed this, as it seems historical and otherwise the phalanx is pretty useless.

AI phalanxes need all the help they can get, as the computer keeps turning their flanks to you, inviting their piecemeal destruction. In some ways, I think EB should be balanced not to be "realistic" per se, but so that the game gives realistic outcomes when a human fights the AI. For example, there might be a case for inflating the combat values of phalanx units to make them more robust.

More generally, I sometimes wonder if the "realistic" combat system in RTR 6.1, for example, may actually make the game worse. In this model, cavalry and missiles only really work when attacking the flank, and heavy infantry needs to be flanked to avoid fighting long and hard. This is very realistic and I have a hunch EBs combat system may have similar features. But since the AI can't really flank, it's giving the human a big edge over the AI and so leading to potentially imbalanced and unrealistic outcomes.

It reminds me of those great Talonsoft wargames, East Front and West Front. Reluctantly the designers gave the option of assigning lower armour values to tanks' rear and sides. Of course, that is realistic. But they told you not to use the option against the AI, as it did not protect its flanks - allowing you to unrealistically slaughter "monster" tanks.

[Moros]

well the triarii I used can also form a phalanx but I barely had to use them I used backed my triarii and hastati up with them. most of the hoplites were hoplitai iphikrates or something like that .
wel I used skirmishers but they all threw their javelins against the greek peltestai.
wich were beaten by my hastati.
I just used the roman tactics from DA's guide. first send in the hastati then the principes and then the triarii. ofcourse I gave support to the weak areas and such.

ofcouirse note that the stats I used aren't the latest stats. And that even the latest stats are still a WIP.

[jerby]

hoplitai iphicrates.. That's the half-hoplite half-pikemen i guess..pretty much like vanilla's hoplites i guess.

nice to see..but no flanking was going on?

thanks for the answer..good to see your fanatically beta-testing

[Moros]

hoplitai iphicrates.. That's the half-hoplite half-pikemen i guess..pretty much like vanilla's hoplites i guess.

nice to see..but no flanking was going on?

thanks for the answer..good to see your fanatically beta-testing

well at the moment I'm working on sounds and I'm gonna try to write a buildings decription. So I'm not really testing at the moment.

flanking? you mean me or them. they tried but well their cavalry didn't really likes it whe my triarii popped up.