Egyptians+horse archers

**p_nutter** · 09-17-2005, 19:15

I've been playing the Egyptians. I've had a hard time getting used to the weird units in their army, which seem a lot harder to get to grips with than the "charge first, ask questions later"-type catholic units.

Some custom battles have convinced me that horse archers will help. But...

The game says Mamluk horse archers need bowyers' guild and horse breeders' guild. Translation: I need to build 20% improved farmland, horse farmer, horse breeder, horse breeders' guild, town guard, bowyer, bowyer's workshop, and bowyers' guild. Oh, yes, and to build all that I need a fort, keep and a castle first! That will take 6600 florins and 52 years to build. With one more year to train, and starting in 1087, my first horse archers will appear in the year 1140.

That's assuming none of those buildings stall due to lack of money (which they already have done. Stupid uncapturable jedi Byzantine princes...)

There may be a better way...
Situation in 1110:

It's faster to grab Constantinople with my crazy camels+spears+archers army and build that up to horse archers...

This is nuts. Compare this with the Turks, who practically start with horse archers... it didn't help them much though

**Roark** · 09-18-2005, 03:07

Just go for Turcopoles in Antioch or something instead...

I personally find that Faris and Mamluks are worth the build time for the Egyptians.

Apart from Sipahis of the Porte, the Turkish horse archers are totally gutless in charge & melee.

**Grey_Fox** · 09-18-2005, 14:12

Turcoman HA's are great horse archers, and do a good job at flanking.

**PFJ_bejazuz** · 09-18-2005, 14:59

Faris are the hidden gem

up at V3 in a MP game they can swing it big time

**Ludens** · 09-18-2005, 16:29

How to use Horse Achers (Shameless self-promotion

)

Turcomen and Turcopoles are only available to the Turks and the Catholics respectively. Egypt has only two horse archers: Mamluk HA and Faris. Faris require a horse breeder, Bowyer's workshop and a Swordsmith's workshop (two keep-level and one castle-level buildings), while a Mamluk HA require Bowyer's guild and Horsebreeders Guild (two castle-level buildings), making them both rather hard to build. There is no real solution to your problem, other than hiring whatever HA's you might find in your inns.

Neither Faris nor Mamluk Horse Archers are very good, in my opinion. They have decent melee, but nothing outstanding and they are slow as horse archers go. I prefer Mamluks because of the valour bonus in the Sinai. That said, in the hands of a capable player who is not afraid to micro-manage, they can wreak havoc on the hapless A.I.

**Roark** · 09-19-2005, 02:52

Originally Posted by Grey_Fox

Turcoman HA's are great horse archers, and do a good job at flanking.

They're fast... but that's about it IMHO. They are marginally better than base HAs. Morale is still shocking...

At least you can send Faris in to fight straight after a volley of arrows. Good for breaking your opponent's morale, if you can time it correctly.

**bretwalda** · 09-19-2005, 11:48

Originally Posted by Roark

They're fast... but that's about it IMHO. They are marginally better than base HAs. Morale is still shocking...

At least you can send Faris in to fight straight after a volley of arrows. Good for breaking your opponent's morale, if you can time it correctly.

Turcoman Horses are not for "sending them straight to the melee" except in really desperate situation. Rather pick off isolated troops, run them around, tire them, and when they break from exhaustion and arrow fire run them down. Excelently run down e.g. isolated archers. They can also nicely flank a pinned enemy.

My favourite tactics to pick off the enemy archers (isolate and run down...). When there are no archers in the enemy army usually they are MINE! (Except maybe the Byz who crash thru the hail of arrows giving a hard time with their hardcore units...)

When playing the Turks my priority is to build up Tripoli to produce v2 and decent morale Turcoman Horses. Now those horsies rock!

**p_nutter** · 09-19-2005, 19:29

Thanks for the advice, guys. There's one more way to get horse archers (although it's not exactly reliable): Jihad! They often contain Mamluk HAs for some reason.

I finally got the Sinai built up for Mamluk HAs in 1146. I'm quite happy with them - their morale is good enough to run round the back of the enemy without routing, and they are sort of OK in melee - i.e. good enough to kill archers.

Now I've got the castle-level horse archers, it's time to think about the Kwarazmiam cavalry: citadel-level knights...