Fallout

[LeftEyeNine]

I am a computer games fan. It's been around 11 years since meeting that machine that sucked up my life. I played many games, I have many favorites - Civ series, AOE series, CM series, Duke Nukem 3D, Colin McRae Rally Series, Sacred etc.

But no game ever gave me the feeling Fallout could impose. A wrecked and almost dead world after a nuclear war, you start in a Vault. They send you to find a water chip to the ground, somewhere that is shiny enough to make you blind at very first sight.

The game is like a fun buddy sitting next to you, who is a joke machine while he is a rather serious one. The game's atmosphere, its foreseeing ability of humankind's fate, sense of humor, character - karma - skill system, cool 2D graphics for its time (which still does not irritate me at all), stunning soundtrack and a bloodshot-eyed LEN who stayed up late again dealing with the quests of a totally bondless fantasy world...

I can not define how I felt when I saw the credits screen of Fallout 2 running up - Louis Armstrong - A Kiss To Build A Dream On playing in the soundtrack. I can solely be grateful to the game because it let me meet my step-grandpa satchmo Louis.

Well, the credits screen with Armstrong's track was like a farewell to a buddy.

Any die-hard Fallout fans out there ?

[LeftEyeNine]

Bethesda is a good RPG handler, you know. Morrowind : Oblivion will be a storm in computer games world. Very soon..

However, Bethesda's games torture you with their endless bugs. I hope they drive a precise beta-testing. It's also a rumor that Bethesda copyrighted the Fallout 3, 4 and 5. They know they are holding a treasure in hand. I hope they are aware of its worth for the time ahead as well.

[Kekvit Irae]

Bethesda is a good RPG handler, you know. The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion will be a storm in computer games world. Very soon..

However, Bethesda's games torture you with their endless bugs. I hope they drive a precise beta-testing. It's also a rumor that Bethesda copyrighted the Fallout 3, 4 and 5. They know they are holding a treasure in hand. I hope they are aware of its worth for the time ahead as well.

Fixed.


And as for Fallout, I am neutral about Fallout 1, however I absolutely love Fallout 2. Unfortunately, whenever I play F2, I always get the urge to go to San Fransisco and Navarre at the start of the game to get the uber exp and upgraded powerarmor.
I especially like playing a boxer. Buff up your HtH skill, and you can knock almost anything unconcious with a blow to the head. Grab the Slayer perk, and you are almost unstoppable. Plus it helps that the boxing match in New Reno gives you permanent physical resistance for being a prizefighter (and you get better relations with the mobs too).

[econ21]

I'd rate Fallout 2 as the best CRPG ever. (I played Fallout 1 after FO2 and so was a little spoiled.)

The post-apocalyptic atmosphere is compelling and full of character.

The SPECIAL character creation system unrivalled - the attributes are all valuable (the manual does not lie when it says each attribute is the most important); the perks are levellying rewards really worth waiting for; and the skill system allows a lot of flexibility in customising your character.

The main story arc is interesting - an epic mixture of questing, exploration, investigation and tragedy slowly building up to a James Bond style climax.

The world is large, but also interesting. You have freedom but also lots of places worth visiting.

The sidequests are varied and most are worth doing for reasons other than the XP or other in-game rewards.

The combat is pretty solid and statisfying, in a rather gory OTT way. The fact that the combat is rationed makes it even more fun - it's far from hack n slash.

The NPCs are vividly drawn, especially those given talking heads.


There are a number of other CRPGs that share many of these virtues or similar. I'm thinking particularly of BG2, the Kotors, Vampire: Bloodlines. but they tend to be slightly lacking in scale or immersion to Fallout 2.

[Phatose]

Loved fallout 2. Played Fallout 1 afterward, so it's not quite as high on my list. So much to do in the game, and the world really felt alive. Actually just started out a new game a few days ago.

I'm not expecting to like F3 though. I'm not long on nice things to say about morrowind - combat was just the tip of the iceberg IMO. Lifeless conversations, annoying interface kinks like the inability to unlearn spells you no longer need. I can see the attraction of the exploring, sort of, but when I discovered how ridiculously easy it was to become a demi-god, I just lost the point. I knew whatever was in that cave over there wasn't gonna be a challenge and wouldn't have anything of real use to me. Got as far as the part where you learn you're the nevarine before I wandered into what was apparently the last dungeon and beat the snot out of the last boss without blinking an eyelash. Quit after that, haven't gone back.

But, expectations aside, if info starts showing that F3 is gonna be a fallout game, and not post-apocalyptic elder scrolls, I'll likely get interested.

[econ21]

Ick. BG2 is not even halfway comparable to Fallout 2 (or even Fallout 1). It fell back on the Hack & Slash and Monty Haul Uber Loot aspects of AD&D to make up for the shallow spots in it's story. No such faults in Fallouts 1 and 2.

Tastes vary. Personally I regard FO2 and BG2 as very similar kinds of games, representing high points of the CRPG genre that the new generation of 3D games have not yet matched (NWN, Morrowind, etc). What they lose in graphics, they more than make up for in terms of epic story, interesting combat and vivid NPCs.

While BG2 did have more combat than FO2, any such hack and slash elements were very good hack and slash elements. I really enjoyed the mage duels, with spell protections and purges, for example. Battling the dragons and liches were similar high points. To be honest, the combat in BG2 was much more tactical and finely balanced - simply better than that in FO2. In FO2, you simply blow your enemies brains out with your weapon of choice while your followers do their thing for better or worse. If you are unlucky and get into a scrap way above your level, your enemies blow your brains out - often from off the screen - and it's reload time. In BG2, preparation, positioning and choice of spells are all critical. A lot of this is due to BG2 giving you control of a party of six.

The uber loot stuff of BG2 was more a pain of inventory management (which FO2 was also guilty of) rather than anything particularly broken - IIRC, equipment mattered rather more in FO2 than it did in BG2 (where level and tacitcs were more the key).

In terms of story, I think BG2 had a more compelling story arc, at least until you emerged from the Underdark (where I confess I lost interest). There was more mystery, more motivation and a better baddie (come on, Sergeant Horrigan cannot compare to a Saarevok or Irenicus.) The cut-scenes - particularly the dreams where Imoen was a captive and your slayer nature was introduced - were more numerous and compelling than anything comparable in FO2. And made the game more cinematic in a way that presages KOTOR.

Where FO2 scored was in the atmosphere and in giving you more freedom to carve out your own destiny in a large world. [The latter feature was one that Morrowind overdosed on, to the point of losing the plot.] For that reason, I found FO2 more immersive and had no trouble finishing it, unlike 99% of CRPGs (including BG2) that I had played up until that point.

I agree with Phatose, I can take or leave a post-apocalyptic Elder Scrolls. It will need a lot more content in terms of NPCs, side-quests and plot to qualify as a worthy successor to Fallout. Vampire Bloodlines is probably the closest thing to a recent Fallout type game - the game just oozes atmosphere and character. KOTOR2 was pretty strong in those respects too.

[Kekvit Irae]

In FO2, you simply blow your enemies brains out with your weapon of choice while your followers do their thing for better or worse.

I still have fond memories of Ian shooting me in the back with a sniper rifle and Dogmeat dying on an electric floor.
That's why I prefer FO2over FO1, which gives me a lot more control over the party members other than "hang back" or "stick close"

[Crandaeolon]

Fallout 2 is one of those games that I return to regularly. Others that have made the cut are Dungeon Master, Star Control 2, Planescape: Torment, Master of Orion 2, Jagged Alliance 2 and Freespace 2. Some very good games such as BG & BG2, KotoR, Morrowind, Gothic 2, SMAC and so on didn't make it on the short list.

The OP and Simon summed up pretty well the qualities that make F2 such an exceptional game. There's a great core system, a compelling setting (which includes some unique visuals and music), a decent story, satisfying combat and a large, free-form world with a plenty of stuff to do. There's also a general "smoothness" and flow to the game that the heavier RPGs cannot match, and a humorous approach which is often important in generating a lasting charm.

BG2 is more epic and has a more interesting combat system, as well as better NPC interaction and a superior villain, but somehow it still falls a bit behind in my book. It just doesn't feel as smooth and fun as F2. Maybe it takes itself a bit too seriously. Also, the combat could be a bit less complex; micromanaging everything in the hundreds of fights becomes a chore quite fast. Sure, mage duels are very good stuff, but there's also a ton of less interesting combat to wade through.

[Kekvit Irae]

I think one of the things that makes Fallout so great is the original setting. How many games, off the top of your head, are set in a post-apocolyptic world? Now, how many games are set in a medieval fantasy world?
The general public is getting kind of jaded from the stereotypical fantasy game, and Fallout is a refreshing journey into something new.

[Papewaio]

F2
I loved the cafe of lost dreams and getting the cloak from the bridge guardian... very Monty Python.

[Sjakihata]

What is Fallout: Tactics and Brotherhood of Steel?

I want to buy Fallout, which one should I get.

[econ21]

Buy Fallout and Fallout 2. You might find them bundled together as a budget game (on a white label in the UK?).

Fallout 2 very much builds on Fallout, so I would play them in order. Plus FO2 has some improvements in the interface that makes it hard to go back.

Fallout: Tactics is a strategy (or rather tactics) game, not a CRPG. It's not bad - sort of a poor man's Jagged Alliance 2. But although it is decent, I find playing it rather painful because it is not Fallout proper or nearly as good as JA2.

Brotherhood of Steel I am not sure about, but it's not what we're raving out in this thread.

[el_slapper]

Brotherhood of steel is the other name of Fallout tactics. A good game, but.....

But once you've finished it, there's no replay value.
But there is no RPG element that would play on the exceptionally rich Fallout environment & storyline.
But there is nearly no freedom of move : mission 1 , base, mission 2, base....Mission 20. End of story.

Really frustrating, as the potential was huge. Team development is excellent, tactics are nearly as good as the reference JA2, graphics are really cool, & so on.

[Phatose]

Brotherhood of Steel is also the title of the console game, I believe. Not a fallout style game, more like Baldur's gate Dark Alliance in fallout clothes. Didn't play it myself, but the major review sites thought it was pretty meh.