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    Default Thousands march in Hamas rally: Proof again of Palestine's inability to pursue peace

    Thousands march in Hamas rally
    By Laila El-Haddad in Gaza

    Monday 19 September 2005, 0:03 Makka Time, 21:03 GMT


    10,000 people were said to be at the demonstration

    The Palestinian resistance group Hamas has held a massive military rally in Gaza City, in clear defiance of President Mahmoud Abbas's calls to disarm.

    Hamas said a 10,000-strong army, posing on jeeps and camouflage-decorated trucks, spread out across Gaza city on Sunday.

    The men carried assault rifles, Qassam rockets and anti-tank missiles as hundreds of thousands of supporters cheered them on.

    The demonstration comes one week after Israel completed the evacuation of its forces from the Gaza Strip, ending 38 years of military rule in the impoverished territory, and many Gazans see it as the largest show of force yet by the group.


    Defiance

    The demonstration was considered a clear message of defiance to Abbas's calls to disarm Gaza, including his own party's al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, under the banner of One Authority, One Weapon.

    "We will not allow the state of lawlessness, the disorder of weapons, taking law into one's hands, kidnapping and attacks on government institutions and state land to continue," Abbas said earlier. "No one is above the law."

    The demonstration also the first time commanders of Hamas's armed wing - the Izze-Din-al-Qassam Brigades, long hunted by Israeli drones and helicopter gunships - made a public appearance.


    Resistance

    "These are only a small portion of the brigades - spread out on the very same street that our leaders were once assassinated on. If they all came out today, Gaza itself could not fit them," said the one of the younger leaders of the armed wing.

    "We are here today to say we shall never lay down our arms. Our arms are our existence," he said.

    "It is not a matter of how much it costs us; we will never let up. We are here to tell the entire world, Israel must leave not just Gaza-but Palestine in its entirety.

    "Some people say these rockets are child's play. If this is the case, why did the enemy escape from them? We have defeated the army that cannot be defeated. We have crushed the army that cannot be crushed."

    Credit for withdrawal

    Palestinian factions have been jockeying for power and credit for the Israeli withdrawal in the run-up to Palestinian parliamentary elections in January.

    The ability of the Abbas government to come to a swift resolution to the Rafah border crisis, and to re-open the Rafah crossing with Palestinian control, is thought to be a test for his government.

    Hamas won the majority of the seats in Gaza's municipal elections this year, and the group's effectiveness at meeting the immediate needs of residents and getting the job done is seen as a challenge to the popularity of the largely mismanaged Palestinian Authority.

    Election

    Earlier, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said that Israel would "make every effort" not to help the Palestinian Authority hold elections in the West Bank if Hamas took part in them.

    Hamas leader Mahmoud al-Zahar on Sunday warned Sharon against impeding the Palestinian elections, Aljazeera reported.

    "Based on Sharon's latest statements about impeding the Palestinian elections and preventing Hamas from participating, we hereby announce that if Sharon impeded the elections process, we have the right to disturb the lives of the Jewish settlers in occupied Palestine by any means viable to us.


    "Secondly, Hamas movement opposes any step taken (by Israel) under the pretext of establishing security zones aimed at serving the purposes of the Zionist enemy in any form,'' al-Zahar said.
    Oh good. Hamas is saying the Israeli pullout is a victory.

    We are here to tell the entire world, Israel must leave not just Gaza-but Palestine in its entirety
    It is clear the Palestine is a terrorist region. Israel has attempted to foster good will and has dismantled settlements and moved out of Gaza. They intend to do much the same in the West Bank. But what do Palestinians want? The destruction of Israel. Nothing less. Giving Gaza, an act of peace, has only fueled the Palestinians.


    We must support Israel. And Israel must put a final end to Palestine. No more negotiations. Sheet of glass.

    Link to story:http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...FA6A30A336.htm
    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein

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    Mystic Bard Member Soulforged's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thousands march in Hamas rally: Proof again of Palestine's inability to pursue peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Divinus Arma
    Oh good. Hamas is saying the Israeli pullout is a victory.
    It is clear the Palestine is a terrorist region. Israel has attempted to foster good will and has dismantled settlements and moved out of Gaza. They intend to do much the same in the West Bank. But what do Palestinians want? The destruction of Israel. Nothing less. Giving Gaza, an act of peace, has only fueled the Palestinians.


    We must support Israel. And Israel must put a final end to Palestine. No more negotiations. Sheet of glass.

    Link to story:http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...FA6A30A336.htm
    And why is that? Does Israel has better rights to the territory? I don't think so.
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thousands march in Hamas rally: Proof again of Palestine's inability to pursue peace

    And why is that? Does Israel has better rights to the territory? I don't think so.
    You dont think Israel has better rights to Israel than Hammas?

    I hate say to you all that I told you so, but I told you so. There will be no peace until one of these sides truly defeats and eliminates the other. The Palestinians wont be satisfied until every jew is gone from the middle east. Yet there are many who dont take them serious just as they dont take AQ and Bin Laden serious. Israel is without a doubt one of our greatest allies in this war . The Palestinians seem much ore like AQ and all the rest. In fact they may be the model that AQ is based upon.
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    Member Senior Member Proletariat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thousands march in Hamas rally: Proof again of Palestine's inability to pursue pe

    Heh. Once again, if the Palestinians lay down their arms, there is no more terrorism. If the Israelis lays down their arms, there is no Israel.

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    Mystic Bard Member Soulforged's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thousands march in Hamas rally: Proof again of Palestine's inability to pursue peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    You dont think Israel has better rights to Israel than Hammas?

    I hate say to you all that I told you so, but I told you so. There will be no peace until one of these sides truly defeats and eliminates the other. The Palestinians wont be satisfied until every jew is gone from the middle east. Yet there are many who dont take them serious just as they dont take AQ and Bin Laden serious. Israel is without a doubt one of our greatest allies in this war . The Palestinians seem much ore like AQ and all the rest. In fact they may be the model that AQ is based upon.
    Well i don't think that the jews have more right to Palestine that the palestinians, if that's your question. I asked this because if I remember it well the palestinians occupated the land until your government and the british took over.
    And I agree with you, but there's another solution, take the people living on "Israel" and put them in another place, I really believe that the land belongs to the palestinians, terrorism and violence aside. On the other hand...What is this "war" you're talking about? War against terrorism? I would not call it a war, you cannot fight an idea, and the idea will keep spreading if countries keep invading other countries.
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    Default Re: Thousands march in Hamas rally: Proof again of Palestine's inability to pursue peace

    We must support Israel. And Israel must put a final end to Palestine. No more negotiations. Sheet of glass.
    So you support Genocide Divinus ? Thats nice
    Sheet of glass ???? So you you favour a nice little nuclear strike , how pleasant

    Oh good. Hamas is saying the Israeli pullout is a victory.
    Oh , and there was me thinking that an Israeli withdrawel from the occupied territories was a resounding defeat for the Palestinians

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    Default Re: Thousands march in Hamas rally: Proof again of Palestine's inability to pursue peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    We must support Israel. And Israel must put a final end to Palestine. No more negotiations. Sheet of glass.
    So you support Genocide Divinus ? Thats nice
    Sheet of glass ???? So you you favour a nice little nuclear strike , how pleasant

    Oh good. Hamas is saying the Israeli pullout is a victory.
    Oh , and there was me thinking that an Israeli withdrawel from the occupied territories was a resounding defeat for the Palestinians

    Quote Originally Posted by Dâriûsh
    Anyway. The Hamas has spent a lot of effort to build up immense political power. It is no surprise to see them exploiting the Israeli withdrawal to the fullest.

    This is indeed their victory.
    Hamas is a terrorist organization with the stated objective of the destruction of Israel.

    According to The United States Department of State:

    Background Information on Foreign Terrorist Organizations
    Released by the Office of the Coordinator for Counterterrorism
    October 8, 1999

    HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement) a.k.a. Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya, Students of Ayyash, Students of the Engineer, Yahya Ayyash Units, Izz Al-Din Al-Qassim Brigades, Izz Al-Din Al-Qassim Forces, Izz Al-Din Al-Qassim Battalions, Izz al-Din Al Qassam Brigades, Izz al-Din Al Qassam Forces, Izz al-Din Al Qassam Battalions

    Description: Formed in late 1987 as an outgrowth of the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. Various HAMAS elements have used both political and violent means, including terrorism, to pursue the goal of establishing an Islamic Palestinian state in place of Israel. Loosely structured, with some elements working clandestinely and others working openly through mosques and social service institutions to recruit members, raise money, organize activities, and distribute propaganda. HAMAS's strength is concentrated in the Gaza Strip and a few areas of the West Bank. Also has engaged in peaceful political activity, such as running candidates in West Bank Chamber of Commerce elections.
    Activities: HAMAS activists, especially those in the Izz el-Din al-Qassam Brigades, have conducted many attacks--including large-scale suicide bombings--against Israeli civilian and military targets, suspected Palestinian collaborators, and Fatah rivals.

    Strength: Unknown number of hardcore members; tens of thousands of supporters and sympathizers.

    Location/Area of Operation: Primarily the occupied territories, Israel, and Jordan.

    External Aid: Receives funding from Palestinian expatriates, Iran, and private benefactors in Saudi Arabia and other moderate Arab states. Some fundraising and propaganda activity take place in Western Europe and North America.
    http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/rpt/fto/2801.htm#hamas


    According to the United Kingdom Home Office:

    Terrorist Groups
    Twenty-five international terrorist organisations are currently proscribed under the Terrorism Act 2000, which means they are outlawed in the UK.

    Hamas Izz al-Din al-Qassem Brigades: Hamas aims to end Israeli occupation in Palestine and establish an Islamic state.
    http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/terrorism/threat/groups/


    According to Australian Government National Security:

    Hamas' Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades
    Listed in Australia 9 November 2003 re-listed 5 June 2005

    The following information is based on publicly available details regarding the organisation known as 'The Islamic Resistance Movement' (Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya) which is more commonly referred to under its Arabic acronym Hamas. Its military wing is known as the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades. These details have been corroborated by material from intelligence investigations into the activities of Hamas' Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades.

    Hamas is a radical Sunni Islamic organisation which emerged from the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood in late 1987 - shortly after the commencement of the Intifada. Hamas soon became the dominant Islamic fundamentalist group in the Occupied Territories. Its main presence is in the Gaza Strip and some areas of the West Bank.

    The functions of the Hamas organisation, which has distinct civilian and military wings, include legitimate political and social activities. Its welfare and mosque networks act as a base for its recruitment and propaganda activities. Its terrorist operations are conducted by its military wing, the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades.

    Funding for Hamas is largely received from Palestinian expatriates and private benefactors in moderate Arab states. Some of this funding is channelled into its terrorist infrastructure and to support the families of Hamas activists who have died as 'martyrs' in the struggle against Israel and to support the families of those activists who have been arrested.

    Hamas aims to establish an Islamic Palestinian state. It is a rejectionist organisation that has defined its highest priority as jihad for the liberation of all of Palestine. Hamas has employed terror tactics (including engagement in terrorist acts through the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades) in order to achieve its objectives.

    While Hamas is generally divided into three elements: political, military and communal or welfare activities, there is constant mobility of roles and activities between these elements. The diversity of activities also enables the military element to mobilise candidates for military operations from those visiting the mosques and communal facilities.

    Hamas' Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades has been responsible for a series of suicide bomb attacks, shootings and kidnappings of Israeli/Jewish soldiers and civilians in Israel and the Occupied Territories and does not discriminate between Israeli military and civilian personnel. Civilians from a number of countries including the US have been killed in these terrorist attacks although Hamas' Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades has not specifically targeted Western interests.

    In what may be a significant turning point in modus operandi to recruit and utilise foreign muslims in suicide attacks, Hamas' Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades recruited and despatched two British muslims to carry out a suicide bombing of a beach front bar in Tel Aviv. Four people were killed and over 60 injured in the 30 April 2003 attack.

    Since its formation the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades has been involved in over 100 terrorist incidents resulting in the deaths of over 500 people and injuries to more than 3000. The types of attacks conducted by the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades have included:

    suicide bombings on buses and in crowded markets, nightclubs, and other highly populated places;
    drive by shootings, at military check points and of civilians at the roadside; and
    the abduction and murder of Israeli civilians or off duty Israeli soldiers.
    Recent major terrorist attacks for which responsibility has been claimed by, or reliably attributed to, Hamas' Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades, have included:

    the 7 March 2003 shooting of Israeli civilians in Kiriat Arba which killed two people and injured four others;
    the 30 April 2003 suicide bomb attack outside a bar ('Mikes Place') in Tel Aviv which killed four people and injured over 60 others, where the bomber was a British citizen;
    the 18 May 2003 suicide bombing on a bus near the 'French Hill', Jerusalem, which killed seven people and injured 20 others;
    the 19 May 2003 suicide bomb attack at the Amakim mall in Afula, Israel, which killed three people and injured 54 others. Hamas, together with two other groups, claimed responsibility;
    the 11 June 2003 suicide bombing on a bus at Jaffa Street in Jerusalem which killed 17 people and injured 105 others;
    the 19 August 2003 suicide bombing of a bus in Jerusalem which killed 21 people and wounded over 100 others. Hamas initially claimed responsibility for this attack (which was also claimed by the Islamic Jihad's al-Quds Brigade) although a senior Hamas official later stated that Hamas was not involved; and
    the 9 September 2003 suicide bombings, one at a bus stop near Tel Aviv, the second at a Jerusalem nightspot, which killed 15 people and injured many others.
    ASIO assesses that Hamas' Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades is continuing to prepare, plan and foster the commission of acts involving threats to human life and serious damage to property. This assessment is strongly corroborated by information provided by reliable and credible intelligence sources.

    In the course of pursuing its objective of creating an Islamic Palestinian state, Hamas' Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades is known to have engaged in actions that:

    are aimed towards advancing its political and religious causes;
    are intended to, or do, cause serious damage to property, the death of persons or endangerment of life; and
    are intended to cause, or have caused, serious risk to the safety of sections of the public in Israel, and other persons visiting areas in which it operates.
    In view of the above information, Hamas' Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades is assessed to be preparing, planning, and fostering the conduct of terrorist acts. Such acts include actions which are to be done and threats of actions which are to be made with the intention of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause and with the intention of coercing, or influencing by intimidation the government and people of Israel. The actions or threatened actions which Hamas' Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades is assessed to be involved in would, if successfully completed, cause serious physical harm and death to persons and serious damage to property.
    http://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/a...ing_Hamas&apos


    Those of you make comparisons do not forget this: Hamas targets civilians whenever possible. Israel avoids civilians whenever possible.

    Hamas blows up busses full of women and children and innocent people.

    Israel targets militant members with precision guided munitions in order to minimize civilian casualties.

    If the people of Israel collectively decided to put an end to Palestinian terror and wage a true war, then every Palestinian in the region would be dead. And if anybody mobilized against Israel, then they would be dead also.
    Israel shows unbelievable restraint and desires a peaceful end to years of madness with two states, side by side because it is the just and good thing to do. Hamas wants only the destruction of Israel and all her people: man, woman, and child.
    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thousands march in Hamas rally: Proof again of Palestine's inability to pursue peace

    I asked this because if I remember it well the palestinians occupated the land until your government and the british took over.
    Well you remeber wrong. There was no such thing as Palestinians until the mid 1900s. There has never been a palestinian government in the region. There was a nation called Israel thousands of years ago. So if we are going to use who owned it first then for sure its Israel. Also the US did not give anything to Israel. The UN did and before that the british mandate. It was owned by the Ottoman Turks before that not the "Palestinians" as many would have you believe.
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    Default Re: Thousands march in Hamas rally: Proof again of Palestine's inability to pursue peace

    So if we are going to use who owned it first then for sure its Israel.
    Not according to the Bible

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    Intifadah Member Dâriûsh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thousands march in Hamas rally: Proof again of Palestine's inability to pursue peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Well you remeber wrong. There was no such thing as Palestinians until the mid 1900s.
    Somewhat true. Under the delightful British Mandate, all people in the region were called Palestinians, no matter their linguistic, ethnic, or religious heritage. When Israel was formed, citizens of this new nation were called Israeli, and that included Arabs and other ethnicities. But those outside official Israel, in the occupied territories, including the refugees in the neighbouring countries, adopted the term Palestinians for themselves, this name was emphasized by the new PLO rigorously exploiting Arab nationalism.

    But that doesn’t mean that the area was desolate and uncultivated prior to the forming of Israel.
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    Dux Nova Scotia Member lars573's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thousands march in Hamas rally: Proof again of Palestine's inability to pursue peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Well you remeber wrong. There was no such thing as Palestinians until the mid 1900s. There has never been a palestinian government in the region. There was a nation called Israel thousands of years ago. So if we are going to use who owned it first then for sure its Israel. Also the US did not give anything to Israel. The UN did and before that the british mandate. It was owned by the Ottoman Turks before that not the "Palestinians" as many would have you believe.
    Actually the Paestinians have been there for centuries, just that it meaning arabized Muslims is a 20th century conotation. But it was never an idependant state. Palestine is a Roman name for the area they changed it from Judea at some point during the empire.
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    Mystic Bard Member Soulforged's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thousands march in Hamas rally: Proof again of Palestine's inability to pursue peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
    Well you remeber wrong. There was no such thing as Palestinians until the mid 1900s. There has never been a palestinian government in the region. There was a nation called Israel thousands of years ago. So if we are going to use who owned it first then for sure its Israel. Also the US did not give anything to Israel. The UN did and before that the british mandate. It was owned by the Ottoman Turks before that not the "Palestinians" as many would have you believe.
    Ahhh...so the UN giva it to the israelis based on a moral nation of thousand years ago? And what's the difference between USA + Britain with UN?
    Born On The Flames

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    Intifadah Member Dâriûsh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thousands march in Hamas rally: Proof again of Palestine's inability to pursue peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Divinus Arma
    Oh good. Hamas is saying the Israeli pullout is a victory.

    ...Israel has attempted to foster good will and has dismantled settlements and moved out of Gaza. They intend to do much the same in the West Bank....

    ...We must support Israel. And Israel must put a final end to Palestine. No more negotiations. Sheet of glass...

    There were twenty-five settlements in the Gaza Strip. There are roughly three hundred in the West Bank, and while they’re closing four of them, it cannot be said to be quite the same. Unfortunately however, a lot of settlers in the West Bank share your view: the end of Palestine.



    Anyway. The Hamas has spent a lot of effort to build up immense political power. It is no surprise to see them exploiting the Israeli withdrawal to the fullest.

    This is indeed their victory.
    "The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr."


    I only defended myself and the honor of my family” - Nazanin

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thousands march in Hamas rally: Proof again of Palestine's inability to pursue peace

    Not according to the Bible .
    Yes even accordding to the bible. There were peole there before but no centralized government and there certainly werent Palestinians.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

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    Member Member Spetulhu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thousands march in Hamas rally: Proof again of Palestine's inability to pursue pe

    If you want to go biblical a massacre is never wrong! The ones that manage to wipe out all competition are the chosen people, right?
    If you're fighting fair you've made a miscalculation.

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    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thousands march in Hamas rally: Proof again of Palestine's inability to pursue peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Dâriûsh
    Anyway. The Hamas has spent a lot of effort to build up immense political power. It is no surprise to see them exploiting the Israeli withdrawal to the fullest.

    This is indeed their victory.
    If the other players play well, it's thier last...

    The Gaza strip is thier powerbase, but...
    A very fortified border to Israel (well it's more to protect the Israelis for the first years) and time will reduce thier support.

    As problems cannot be blamed on the Isrealis as they stop doing things in there, so the blame will either shift to Hamas (as they currently supply much of the infrastructure there) or (unlikely) disappear as Hamas will actually rebuild the Gaza-strip. But here's the fine part of it, if the Palestinians get it well, would they like to lose it in a war against Israel? Nope. Thus will Hamas either reform to a less radical form or lose power.

    And BTW if someone would start a terrorist movement in the US that fights for state rights, would you then support federalisation of the US? Because otherwise you would be letting the terrorists "win" (as all they needs to do is claiming victory, even if they had nothing to do with it).

    Edit:
    This is more aimed at other members here, Dâriûsh simply supplied a good quote to build on.
    Last edited by Ironside; 09-19-2005 at 11:06.
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    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thousands march in Hamas rally: Proof again of Palestine's inability to pursue peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Divinus Arma
    We must support Israel. And Israel must put a final end to Palestine. No more negotiations. Sheet of glass.
    Let us refrain from statements like this. It is tantamount to saying "kill all the Palestinians" which is just as unacceptable as saying "kill all the Jews".
    Unto each good man a good dog

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