German Tanks in WW2 - the wrong conception

[Kagemusha]

Kraxis the Shots that i saw on telly looked like the rounds would have been HEAT or blunt headed ammo because only dust came out from the broken windows when the tank shot in the house, it didnt look like a high explosive round.
But hey what can we tell from few news film clips.

[RabidGibbon]

Originally posted by Kraxis

It was far from destroyed. It was merely burning a little down in the low chassis and had no smoke billowing from it.
It had been knocked out obviously, but I think it wouldn't take long before it was operational again.

Re: Damaged looking Tanks, both then (WW2) and now theirs been things that can blow a tank to pieces, turn it on its side etc etc, but I've always understood that a knocked out tank (once its finished burning - and all the burning is normally on the inside) can be hard to differentiate from a operational tank at distance.

I remember seeing a photo of a French Bis-1(?) (of 1940 Vintage) being used by the Germans that had been hit by a 17pdr AT Gun at Arnhem, and the shell hole was only noticeable because it had been circled in the photo.

During Operation Crusader in the western desert apparently knocked out tanks often caused some confusion as the battle became all messy and the two sides got mixed up, and fought over battlegrounds that had been recently contested by other formations.

All in all I suspect knocked out tanks that look relatively intact aren't just a modern day phenomenon.

Incidentally whilst theirs so many tank enthusiasts here is it true that the M1A1 has a smoothbore rather than a rifled gun? And if so why is this apparently wrongheaded innovation advantageous?

[Kraxis]

Re: Damaged looking Tanks, both then (WW2) and now theirs been things that can blow a tank to pieces, turn it on its side etc etc, but I've always understood that a knocked out tank (once its finished burning - and all the burning is normally on the inside) can be hard to differentiate from a operational tank at distance.

I remember seeing a photo of a French Bis-1(?) (of 1940 Vintage) being used by the Germans that had been hit by a 17pdr AT Gun at Arnhem, and the shell hole was only noticeable because it had been circled in the photo.

During Operation Crusader in the western desert apparently knocked out tanks often caused some confusion as the battle became all messy and the two sides got mixed up, and fought over battlegrounds that had been recently contested by other formations.

All in all I suspect knocked out tanks that look relatively intact aren't just a modern day phenomenon.

Incidentally whilst theirs so many tank enthusiasts here is it true that the M1A1 has a smoothbore rather than a rifled gun? And if so why is this apparently wrongheaded innovation advantageous?

Well, this footage was upclose to the tank, a step closer and the cameraman would have been crawling on it. There was also some footage looking down on it. Only the commander's hatch was open, indicating a slow retreat from the tank, and there was no indication of an internal fire. The desert camo would instantly show burnmarks at this range, and there was nothing.
Besides, I would suspect that with all the rubber, plastic and other flamabe materials that the tank would at least billow lots of smoke. Plastic burns with lots of smoke.

The smoothbore tankgun is superior to the rifled gun because it uses fins to stabilize the shot. This is better because the rotation of the shot causes a weakening of the HEAT shell (its explosion is less focussed). Also the shots can this way be perfectly fitted. Meaning the rifling won't bleed any gasses during the firing. Further in rifled guns the shot is either upbored or the gun underbored, meaning the shot is slightly too big so that it grips the rifling. That is not needed in a smoothbore. And there is more I'm sure.

[Redleg]

Well, this footage was upclose to the tank, a step closer and the cameraman would have been crawling on it. There was also some footage looking down on it. Only the commander's hatch was open, indicating a slow retreat from the tank, and there was no indication of an internal fire. The desert camo would instantly show burnmarks at this range, and there was nothing.
Besides, I would suspect that with all the rubber, plastic and other flamabe materials that the tank would at least billow lots of smoke. Plastic burns with lots of smoke.

The smoothbore tankgun is superior to the rifled gun because it uses fins to stabilize the shot. This is better because the rotation of the shot causes a weakening of the HEAT shell (its explosion is less focussed). Also the shots can this way be perfectly fitted. Meaning the rifling won't bleed any gasses during the firing. Further in rifled guns the shot is either upbored or the gun underbored, meaning the shot is slightly too big so that it grips the rifling. That is not needed in a smoothbore. And there is more I'm sure.

you covered it well enough