What are the stats for a unit of hastati?

**econ21** · 09-25-2005, 23:16

OK, in the poll for why I am excited about EB, I chose the option "the sheer artistic beauty of it". I have been salivating over the unit profiles for what seems like a year or so.

However, within the heart of even the most artistically inclined wargamer, there lies a dessicated calculating machine, wanting to crank the stats and weigh the odds. So I am itching to know - what has EB done to the unit stats?

For example, could you tell us the stats of a unit, say, hastati, in the game? Just a little morsel of data to feed the number cruncher within.
In vanilla, a unit of hastati has a melee attack 7, missile attack 11, total defence 14 (of which armor is 5 and shield 5)

The reason I ask is because I understand EB is giving the RTW combat engine a pretty major overhaul.

Most mods seem to want to slow down the killing speed, so raise defence (or lower attack) and many also raise unit morale to make the battles last longer.

There may also be historical reasons for wanting to tone down cavalry and missiles, which seem a little too good in vanilla. [I rather like RTR 6.1s approach to this - cavalry has its attack raised and defence slashed (they become kind of ghazis & do well charging from the flanks, but not frontally); missile attacks (other than javelins) are also slashed (so they work best against unarmoured and especially unshielded targets).]

Any insights into how EB is approaching the unit stats?

**QwertyMIDX** · 09-25-2005, 23:24

Early or late?

**SwordsMaster** · 09-25-2005, 23:41

Originally Posted by QwertyMIDX

Early or late?

Both

**Wardo** · 09-26-2005, 00:05

You want the stats from the right-handed or left-handed Hastati? I heard EB nerfed left-handed Hastati because the game is hard-coded so all Hastati must hold the gladius in their right-hand, and left-handed Hastati suffer from a weaker right-arm strenght and practice.

**Steppe Merc** · 09-26-2005, 00:27

Originally Posted by Wardo

You want the stats from the right-handed or left-handed Hastati? I heard EB nerfed left-handed Hastati because the game is hard-coded so all Hastati must hold the gladius in their right-hand, and left-handed Hastati suffer from a weaker right-arm strenght and practice.

No, you've got it backwards. We had difficulty in balancing the left handed Eastern archers, who could fire their bow with either hand, however CA didn't allow the archers to switch bow hands at will.

**zemaniak** · 09-26-2005, 01:04

gee, why do I get the feeling you won't get a clear answer..

**QwertyMIDX** · 09-26-2005, 01:29

The current stats for the Early Hastati are as follows, like everything else in EB this is a WIP.

melee attack: 11 (leathality 0.1)
missile attack: 4 (AP)
defense: 19 (7 armor, 3 shield)
morale: 11

Clear enough?

Thanks, guys that was fun.

**zemaniak** · 09-26-2005, 01:42

thx for the heads-up...but your answer brings up some questions:

1) 7 armor, even though they have none (??), but only 3 for shield
2) with such low missile stats, do any kills occur per volley ?

**econ21** · 09-26-2005, 09:48

Originally Posted by QwertyMIDX

The current stats for the Early Hastati are as follows, like everything else in EB this is a WIP.

melee attack: 11 (leathality 0.1)
missile attack: 4 (AP)
defense: 19 (7 armor, 3 shield)
morale: 11

Thanks, QwertyMIDX. That's interesting - I appreciate it's WIP; I'm just interested to see how you thinking at the moment.

I confess like Soibean I don't know what lethality does in game. Anyone know what the default value is in vanilla? I'm wondering if lowering lethality is how EB has chosen to slow down the kill speeds? The differential between the attack and the defence stat, which in STW and MTW used to determine kill chances, seems pretty much the same as in vanilla.

Morale also seems close to vanilla's, unlike RTR 6.1 where it is doubled.

Does anyone know if the AP property halves the effect of shields as well as armour? If so, it looks like javelins will be similar in effectiveness to vanilla; otherwise they will be reduced.

BTW, likening things to vanilla is not an implied criticism. I am a fan of CA's work and don't want to see the baby thrown out with the bathwater.

Originally Posted by Khelvan

Posting the unit doesn't help you guys, as you lack the context to understand the numbers. We're not revealing the whole system just yet, so I am afraid showing the stats for one unit will create more questions than it answers.

Don't worry, Khelvan, this is a just discussion forum - not the Spanish inquisition.

You are right, we'd need to know about other units, missiles and cav etc. to form a proper views, but I am not going to push my luck with that just yet.