What are the stats for a unit of hastati?

[QwertyMIDX]

Leathality is the final stat on the weapon line of the EDU.

[jerby]

Edu?

[cunctator]

EDU=export_descr_unit.txt file, where the stats are saved.

[econ21]

Thanks for the info. I am now feeling rather clueless - using the Caligula editor, I find a "hit strength" for the hastati of 1 for the pilum and 0.3 for the sword. I guess this is lethality?

Unfortunately my EDU is for RTR 6.1, not vanilla. (I knew I should have backed up my files). It looks like lethality is 1 for ranged weapons and 0.3 for most infantry melee weapons in RTR 6.1. Pikes and spears are 0.4. Cavalry weapons seem to vary a lot and to be more lethal (0.8, sometimes 0.5). I wonder why CA introduced a lethality factor, rather than just relying on attack and defence stats as in STW and MTW?

It's not clear why any infantry would want to switch from spears to swords, as swords seem to have lower attack and lethality. I wonder if the swing speed is relevant for unit effectiveness? Or is it just cosmetic? It's zero for swords and 25 for spears. Alternatively, maybe there is a hardcoded advantage for swords over spears, as in MTW? But then again switching from spears to swords seems to be something that happens automatically in given circumstances (eg disrupted phalanx) and not something the player opts to do.

[Moros]

lithality isn't for range weapons I believe.

[QwertyMIDX]

Leathality doesn't effect missile weapons, so they;d all be one. Animations have a large affect on the way a weapon works, they are far from cosmetic.

[econ21]

Animations have a large affect on the way a weapon works, they are far from cosmetic.

So I wonder do you have a rule of thumb for working out the melee combat power of two units, that also factors in lethality and animations etc? In STW and MTW, there was a formula by which the differential between attack and defence stats determined kill chances. CA have not released the formula for RTW - they said it was a commercial secret when I asked - but maybe modders have inferred something?

As a I first stab, I would say:
Pr(kill) =f[lethality * (attack-defence)]
but I have not got a clue where swing speed would fit in.

I know we're straying into Ludus Magna territory here, but no one visits me there anymore so I am hanging out where the action is.

[QwertyMIDX]

I tried to get some people talking about this sort of thing there, but no such luck.

Anyway, the problem is that EB, even more tha vanilla has a ton of animations. I now have a pretty good feel for how an animation will interact with stats, but it's mostly something gained from tons of tests not any knowledge of a system...animations are rather abstract as many other factors beside attack speed are important.

[Mr Frost]

So I wonder do you have a rule of thumb for working out the melee combat power of two units, that also factors in lethality and animations etc? In STW and MTW, there was a formula by which the differential between attack and defence stats determined kill chances. CA have not released the formula for RTW - they said it was a commercial secret when I asked - but maybe modders have inferred something?

As a I first stab, I would say:
Pr(kill) =f[lethality * (attack-defence)]
but I have not got a clue where swing speed would fit in.

I know we're straying into Ludus Magna territory here, but no one visits me there anymore so I am hanging out where the action is.

According to C/A , Swing Speed , is the "time between animation cycles" in multiples of 1/10th of a second . Thus the default is 2.5 seconds {all units} for vanilla and 0 seconds and/or 2.5 seconds {varies by unit and weapon} for RTW .

For units using the same attack animations it does seem {to me , and just a rough observation} to be close to a straight forward progression at higher numbers {say 10+} that 25 gets 4/5ths of the kills per minute than 20 , however the closer you get to 0 , the smaller the increase in kills {though still a supprising difference between 5 and 10} .

I personally use it in my own mods extensivly to help differentiate between certain weapons performance and also certain qualities of soldier ; some are slower than average due to not being suited to melee combat {many archers for example and a few very poor melee units like Sparabara} and some are much faster as they were the born naturals whom invariably gravitate towards the cream of elite units{Gaesate and Hypaspists for example} . Between modifyed Lethality and Attack Rates I am quite satisfyed thus far in what I can make units do except for missiles ... I'm *this* close to a full blown rant over that towering C/A "we didn't think it was important , even though we went to the great trouble of codeing the damned thing into the engine in the first place then not really using it after all" geekery Arrrggh !

Apologies to all non oblivious geeks .