Chivalric men at arms and feudal men at arms.

[EatYerGreens]

Note the difference in morale, too.

It strikes me that the CMAA would really come into their own in defending a gateway against a siege assault, where they will accept higher losses before breaking and likely inflict more casualties in the process. Assuming, that is, that the AI doesn't simply try and starve them out.
(Note: I haven't had the chance to try Halbardiers yet, I'm sure some would recommend these even higher, for the castle defence role, where movement speed hardly enters into the equation).

In the field, where some losses to missiles are to be expected, I'd probably favour FMAA, since they're cheaper and less prone to fatigue. As a.s.m. said, once valoured up, they'll be as good as the CMAAs anyway. Valour boosts attack, defence AND morale, the latter by two points per step.

[antisocialmunky]

Well... after alot of fighting. I was wondering what's the most cost effective sword infantry-type in melee and came up with a formula:

a= armour - 3 if armour > 3

(Atk + Def + 1/2 Morale - a) * men at default / cost

It adds up all the pros, subtracts the cons, and multiplies by the amount of men and divided by cost.

It only factors in attack armour, and defense because charge doesn't matter after impact. The reason that I subtract armour is that it causes fatigue and increases the attack of AP units.

I'll list them with armour factored in and out so you can match up for AP and non AP.



Byzantine infantry
Charge 3 Attack 2 Defence 2 Armour 3 Speed 6, 10, 11 Morale 0 Cost 200

(2 + 2 + 0 - 0) * 100 / 200 = 2
(2 + 2 + 0) * 100 / 200 = 2


Feudal men at arms.
Charge 3 Attack 3 Defence 2 Armour 3 Speed 6, 10, 11 Morale 2 Cost 175

(3 + 2 + 1 - 0) * 60 / 175 = 2.057
(3 + 2 + 1) * 60 / 175 = 2.057


Chivalric men at arms.
Charge 3 Attack 4 Defence 3 Armour 4 Speed 6, 10, 11 Morale 4 Cost 250

(4 + 3 + 2 - 1) * 60 / 250 = 1.92
(4 + 3 + 2) * 60 / 250 = 2.16


Feudal foot knights.
Charge 3 Attack 5 Defence 2 Armour 3 Speed 6, 10, 11 Morale 8 Cost 275

(5 + 2 + 4 - 0) * 40 / 275 = 1.6
(5 + 2 + 4) * 40 / 275 = 1.6


Gothic foot knights*
Charge 4 Attack 5 Defence 6 Armour 6 Speed 4, 8, 9 Morale 8 Cost 475

(5 + 6 + 4 - 3) * 40 / 475 = 1.011
(5 + 6 + 4) * 40 / 475 = 1.263


Hospitaller foot knights.
Charge 3 Attack 5 Defence 5 Armour 6 Speed 4, 8, 9 Morale 8 Cost 400

(5 + 5 + 4 - 3) * 40 / 400 = 1.1
(5 + 5 + 4) * 40 / 400 = 1.4


*Does not factor in AP effect


I think it's pretty fair, using my formula, it seems that FMAA, CMAA, and BI are roughly equal. Dismounted knights are about as equal to each other as well.

I prefer FMAA to them in alot of situations, but CMAA are better when not fighting AP or in the desert as long as all factors are equal.

[EatYerGreens]

I take it the Units are "Factor.men per florin", to coin an expression? (or, even better, "man.factors per florin").

More is better, too?

The foot knights initially seem inferior but I gather you don't actually train them as units of 'foot knights' per se, they come out as horsemen and it's down to the player to dismount them before battle, when that's best for the circumstances (eg castle assault/siege defence where the horses are just too easy to shoot).

[antisocialmunky]

Well, dismounted knights, as I mentioned, are compared to each other since they're really a different class of troops. And it is also based on cost efficiency in battle as in quality of man per florin. Routing isn't really factored in majorly so the dismounts and the regulars shouldn't be compared to anything outside their class.

[CBR]

Units with AP bonus will get a +1 attack against FMAA and CMAA as armour 3-4 is the same for AP.


CBR

[econ21]

Units with AP bonus will get a +1 attack against FMAA and CMAA as armour 3-4 is the same for AP.

Yes, I don't think you should subtract armour-3 from the combat effectiveness equation.

IIRC the AP bonus is (armour-1)/2 rounding down. And of course you need an AP weapon for it to come in. So what you subtract from your combat effectiveness measure should be some (armour-1)/2 weighted by the probability of an attacker having an AP weapon. In most SP games, I suspect that probability would be rather small.

[antisocialmunky]

I thought AP only applied to AP values 4 and over.