Evolution versus Creationism ... goes to trial

[Ice]

Guys, you must understand, I lived in Western Pennsylavania for a long time. While living there I visited my cousins in centeral PA (near Harrisburg) quite often. It is a very different story from the rest of the country. These people have been using the same morals and traditions for generations upon generations. To force them to change like this is like pissing on their tradation. Although I do not completely agree with either side, I understand where the tradionalists are coming from.

[Lazul]

Electricity is the work of satan and the earth is flat!

...


well, the USA sure is a intresting nation.

[Ignoramus]

The evolutionist scientists themselves know they have no evidence for evolution, they just persuade gullible people, because the average person has no idea whether they are right and wrong, and because people these days are becoming anti-Christian, they go with anything that disagrees with Christianity. And if they haven't discovered solid evidence, why are their theories, many of which have been proved wrong, still taught in schools?

[The_Emperor]

Science itself works on the foundation that you remain objective and evaluate the facts before comming to a conclusion.

Evolution came about after extensive study of various species around the world by Darwin and many other scientists after him. The fossil record also backs up the theory of evolution by tracing the development of species through the ages... Early species of Birds for example started out looking more like dinosaurs with a few feathers and gradually their features changed to become closer to what we see today.

The problem I have with "intelligent design" is it didn't come about after unbiased scientific analysis of the facts. It came from people determined to prove that their religion is scientifically true... They knew what their goal already was beforehand and so selected fact to support that pre-determined goal.

I was always told that a scientist comes to conclusions after analysis of the facts avaliable, not having facts selectively taken to fit a pre-drawn conclusion.

[Ice]

Bullcrap. There's ample evidence for evolution. You're confusing several theories and bunching them into one, without a shred of reason to back up your claim.

It is also just a theory. Just like the thoery of creationism. I have studied evolution, not a great detail, but pretty well in depth. There are still gaps in which they have no idea how life arose. They have an idea, but they are not sure at all.

[yesdachi]

There are a heck of a lot of private schools out there and if people want their kids to learn religion in school, a private school is the place for them .

Side note #1 if they decide to teach a religious creation theory like the Christian Intelligent design, what happens when a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Mormon, etc. moves to the town? Do they teach that religions creation theory as well, or only the theory of the majority? Evolution applies to all where creationism changes depending on the religion. The advocates of teaching intelligent design have such a small view of the world. These religious crackpots are the US’s version of the Muslim type extremists except the ones in PA would rather raise barns than a wars.

Side note #2 I recently saw an Amish guy with a cell phone.

[Rodion Romanovich]

It is also just a theory. Just like the thoery of creationism. I have studied evolution, not a great detail, but pretty well in depth. There are still gaps in which they have no idea how life arose. They have an idea, but they are not sure at all.

Being quite good at the evolution theory myself, I can say a few things to clear misconceptions in this thread up:
1. Darwin's theory is faulty in many ways if you use it as a model for describing reality. It's not because he was a bad scientist, but because he only discovered the basic principles of it, and never made an attempt of creating a full model of it. Therefore, it's only of interest to scientists, not for laymen. The modern science, knowing this principle and having proved it both theoretically and statistically, is making better efforts at making a complete model based on this principle.
2. With the modern evolution model, there are no contraarguments which prove any of the parts to be wrong. Unlike the popular misconceptions of the 19th century fascists, scientists realize that it's nearly impossible for a man to predict which genes are "the strongest" in the long run, and scientists also realize the importance of genetical variety.
3. The Christian creationist theory in the popular catholic form has met strong contraarguments and has been, largely, counterproved.
4. Compare point 2 and 3, it's an important difference. We might not have fully proved the evolution model, not the creationism theory either. But at least we've counterproved the creationist theory but not the evolution model. A more methafor based interpretation of the creationism theory results in a view that isn't contradicting reality, for example the Bible knew that most other animals came before humans, and that earth was created before animals etc. I'd say the popular fundamentalistic creationist theory is counterproved, but not the creationist theory that's written in the bible, if you read it as you're supposed to. And the evolution model we have today is nearly correct.

[Ice]

All good points. I guess what it comes down to is what you put ur faith in: religion,science, or a mix of both?

[BDC]

Haha that's hilarious. People will be burning witches next.

[Geoffrey S]

As to whether evolution is real or not, it's a theory: nothing is a definite fact, just as any other scientific theory. The holes are being filled in all the time. Believing in God is fine by me; just don't try to wrap belief up in pseudo-scientific nonsense and claim it's scientific.

[Zharakov]

I beieve in Evolution.

I believe that God wanted us to evolve from Monkeys. It makes sence to me.

[Adrian II]

I beieve in Evolution.

I believe that God wanted us to evolve from Monkeys. It makes sence to me.

Couldn't he speed it up a bit?..

[Dâriûsh]

I beieve in Evolution.

I believe that God wanted us to evolve from Monkeys. It makes sence to me.

Me too

I am neither a scholar nor a scientist, but in my humble opinion, I think evolution is a part of God’s great work.

But this level of animosity is surprising, in my home the Qur'an and Scientific American sit side-by-side on my shelf and they get along well.

[Xiahou]

Look at the Miller Experiment. Proof that life can arise from nothing under the right circumstances.

It was certainly not.

Bullcrap. There's ample evidence for evolution. You're confusing several theories and bunching them into one, without a shred of reason to back up your claim.

The irony is precious in that statement.

The world will not collapse if they are not allowed to preach their ignorant reactionary dogma to impressionable children who's parents may or may not want that. Nothing stopping them from doing it at home, or at church.

Nor will it collapse if they are allowed either. I really don't care what they choose to teach in their own, local schools. It speaks very poorly of the ACLU that they are on the plaintiffs side of this, imo.

[Steppe Merc]

Nor will it collapse if they are allowed either. I really don't care what they choose to teach in their own, local schools. It speaks very poorly of the ACLU that they are on the plaintiffs side of this, imo.

Well the world will certaintly get no better if kids are taught old fashioned, supersititous ideas in school like this.

[Goofball]

It speaks very poorly of the ACLU that they are on the plaintiffs side of this, imo.

Please explain.

Here we have a group trying not just to preach their religious dogma at people who don't adhere to it, but they are actually going so far as to try to have their dogma declared scientific fact and taught in science classes in public schools.

Science classes, for crying out loud...



If they are allowed to do this, it will be a clear example of "establishment of religion" by the government.

Why should the ACLU be in favor of this?

Please, enlighten me...

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Please explain.

Here we have a group trying not just to preach their religious dogma at people who don't adhere to it, but they are actually going so far as to try to have their dogma declared scientific fact and taught in science classes in public schools.

Science classes, for crying out loud...



If they are allowed to do this, it will be a clear example of "establishment of religion" by the government.

Why should the ACLU be in favor of this?

Please, enlighten me...

Evolutionists sucesfully got their anti-religious dogma declared scientific fact and taught in science classes. We all know Evolution is just an accepted theory, it's not a proven fact.

Have you ever seen anything evolve?

[Kanamori]

Have you ever seen anything evolve?

The most documented case is the peppered moth.

Why should the ACLU be in favor of this?

Because they support Constitutional ideas that are a stretch, at best, sometimes.

[Xiahou]

Please explain.

Because it's an organization that still claims to be our nation's guardian of "liberty", supporter of the Bill of Rights and civil liberties when they're only really concerned with their own narrow, anti-religious, view of the 1st Amendment. I really don't see where allowing a democratically elected school board to set it's own curriculum has anything to do with Congress making a law as to the establishment of religion. You could make the tenuous link, I suppose- but an organization that claims to support the entire Bill of Rights seem remarkably unconcerned about the 10th in this case, as well as the town's "liberty" to elect their own school board to run their school district as they see fit.

I anything, they should've just butt out.

[Ice]

Who cares? Honestly? School is for teaching real things. Church is for religion. The world will not collapse if they are not allowed to preach their ignorant reactionary dogma to impressionable children who's parents may or may not want that. Nothing stopping them from doing it at home, or at church.

They obviously care, and with that attitude is most likely why they hate evolutionists. In many places there, school and religion are interwoven. If they want to keep it that way fine, just send your kids to a different school if you really care that much.