What to do with child molesters?

[Don Corleone]

I'm moving this over from the Fascist thread (sorry about the diversion, Beirut). Anyway, there's two schools of thought on this (with all sorts of variants within the two camps).

One side says the offender is a victim themself, of a terrible disease, and deserves therapy and treatment. Just as we shouldn't punish somebody for catching cancer, this school of thought says the perpetrator should be treated, not punished. Among other things, they point to the fact that most molesters were themselves molested in their own childhood.

The other camp points to the high recivitism rate, even when the offender has received the best available care. The number of reoffending paedophiles is a hard number to judge, as they are certainly not going to volunteer the information. There is also the tricky question of what concerns a re-offense. In any case, estimates run as high as 80%, it's one of the highest recivitism rate crimes there is. In light of this, this camp advocates terrible punishments for the perpetrators, in an effort to discourage them (or prevent them). This is where you hear things along the lines of execution, castration, extended prison sentances, etc. One of the justifications for this camp believing the perpetrator is responsible for their actions is that they agree most perpetrators were themselves victimized, they point to the fact that the overwhelmingly number of sexual abuse victims DO NOT grow up to become offenders themselves. In other words, while victimization might be a flag, it is certainly not correlated enough to be a 'cause' in the sense of removing responsibility.

Now, I've recently come to a place where I've decided that my Christian faith cannot square with the death penalty. The public whipping sounded really good, and not just from a vengance standpoint. Singapore absolutely swears by their system (of caning). In most criminology studies, the reason deterrants don't work isn't because the potential criminal isn't afraid of the punishment if he knew he was going to receive it, he has worked out the odds and considers the likelihood of being punished so low, it's worth the risk. I believe that if paedophiles knew they were going to be publicly whipped (or even in private) and for minor offenses you were forced to watch a whipping, the predators would take different actions.

I'd really like to hear from qualified professionals, such as A. Saturnus (but all are welcome to share their views) to discuss what those in the rehabilitation camp propose doing about the high recitivism rates of paedophiles. As it currently stands, even with the best of treatments, 4 out of 5 of these guys are going to come out of prison and reoffend. Is that the price we as a society have to pay?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Simple . Send them all to Jags home for rehabilitaion. Where has the darlin boy been by the way?

[Duke Malcolm]

lol

I would castrate them, then 10 years in gaol, then brand the word "PAEDO" somewhere on them, and then let it be.

[King Henry V]

Castrate them, then lock them in a cell with one bed for 24h with 6 foot 9, 250 pound convict called "Pooches".

[Ronin]

lock them up and throw away the key....make sure the prison population is well aware of the subject´s crime in order to assure a "warm" welcome.

no death penalty.....but a suicide option should be presented at any time that the subject asked for it.

[TosaInu]

A hot topic. I understand the emotions, but keep it clean and civil.

[The_Doctor]

Castrate them

What if it was a woman?


We had one in our road only 3 houses away from mine in a big old house that is used as flats, nobody knew about it until we read it in a local newspaper.

And ironically we also have a man who got an MBE for running a youth club for a long time.

[Redleg]

Child Molesters and Rapists are like Sociopaths. Both are proven incurable, and un-rehabilitatable. You can do some things to lessen the risk, but you can never cure someone like this. Regardless of whatever victimizations they might have gone through at one point, is that not further reason to remove them from society? If they are running around raping and molesting, they are creating more people like themselves.

Child Molesters and Rapists need to be killed, in my opinion.

For committing the crime of molestion and child rape - lock them up for a long period of time - There is a push to make it a mandatory sentence of not less then 25 years. Not sure where I actually fall into on this - the first time offense could be treated if an investigation is conducted toward the why of the crime to determine what made the individual do such an act - but for multiple offenders - I have absolutely no problem having them locked up for the rest of their lives.

For committing child rape and then murdering that child - well I have already stated numerous times that such an act warrants the death penality.

[ShadesPanther]

executed or at the very least locked up in jail until they die with no chance at all of parole

Also in my school just before I went there there was a paedophille teacher so yes lock them up untill they die at the very least

[Kagemusha]

I think they cant be cured.Lobotomy or castration and lifetime in jail.Some people just arent able to be part of the society.

[doc_bean]

Lock them up and throw away the key, allow suicide.

[sharrukin]

There exists the problem of wrongful conviction, particularly when the victim is a child, and more susceptible to outside influence. That aside.

If there exists clear proof (DNA, video, etc) then the death penalty seems the only long term solution that works. Long prison terms have a magical way of becoming shorter as time goes by. And then we have another victim.

When one of these guys is arrested, it is rare indeed, to hear that this is their first run-in with the law. They have usually done this several times before that the legal system was aware of.

Death penalty

[Red Harvest]

I'm not willing to accept the "disease" argument as it is generally presented. I can accept it if we treat it as a disease that requires stringent permanent quarantine. That quarantine would of course be lifetime imprisonment. Castration might work for some, but it is not going to work for many. In a voluntary capacity it might have some application.

I strongly support the death penalty for many offenses against children. It must be my rural roots, but we put dangerous animals down. (Incurably ill ones too...hence my acceptance of assisted suicide.) To me, someone who cannot live in our society without destroying the lives of innocents qualifies as a dangerous animal, rather than a human worthy of my sympathy. They should be put down with extreme prejudice.

[drone]

The death penalty is too kind here. King Henry V's idea is more of what I'd prefer. At least 20 years in the general population of a maximum security prison. In prisons here in the States, pedophiles are about three rungs lower than pond scum in the hierarchy, chances are you'd get the same result as the death penalty, but with a cleaner conscience and lower electric bill.

[yesdachi]

I'm not willing to accept the "disease" argument as it is generally presented. I can accept it if we treat it as a disease that requires stringent permanent quarantine. That quarantine would of course be lifetime imprisonment. Castration might work for some, but it is not going to work for many. In a voluntary capacity it might have some application.

I strongly support the death penalty for many offenses against children. It must be my rural roots, but we put dangerous animals down. (Incurably ill ones too...hence my acceptance of assisted suicide.) To me, someone who cannot live in our society without destroying the lives of innocents qualifies as a dangerous animal, rather than a human worthy of my sympathy. They should be put down with extreme prejudice.

Since seeing the original question posted a while ago I have been trying to think of a response that would be appropriate without spending a lot of time (I am at work) Thanks Red Harvest for saving me the trouble. I agree.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

My faith teaches against the use of the death penalty, and I have slowly come around to agreement with that position.

Heinous offenders of this type are demonstrably damaging to society (creating a new generation of the same being among the worst elements). Redleg's commentary about quarantine is apt. Taking life judicially may be unneccessary in a modern society and thereful too "vengeful" to constitute a truly ethical response. Allowing such offenders to continue among us, especially in light of the known recidivism/failed treatment rates, is equally unethicical. Imprisonoment until the threat is nullified is the only moral choice.

Seamus

[Crazed Rabbit]

For all those advocating killing, what do you think of this:

Man claims he killed 2 sex offenders in city ?

I personally say lock them up and throw away the key or just save some jail space and execute for the particularily henious crimes.

Crazed Rabbit

[Devastatin Dave]

Simple . Send them all to Jags home for rehabilitaion. Where has the darlin boy been by the way?

LOL, I was about to post the exact same thing!!! Beat me to it!!!

[Tribesman]

What to do with child molesters?

Oh , that didn't actually work did it .

[yesdachi]

For all those advocating killing, what do you think of this:

Man claims he killed 2 sex offenders in city ?

I’m not sure why he turned himself in . If your going to be a vigilante, I say really go for it! He should have been going from town to town with a copy of the “registered sex offenders list” in one hand and his 9mm in the other.

[BDC]

Therapy or whatever if that will actually change things. If not, prison I guess. Either way don't let them near kids at all.

Still, no point in letting someone who could actually work (just not near vulnerable people) rot in prison.

[Crazed Rabbit]

yesdachi, I'm not sure why he turned himself in either. It seemed like he was not a suspect. Whatcom County could do with less sex offenders.


Crazed Rabbit

[PanzerJaeger]

Sexuality does not define a person, but it cannot be changed within a person. Bluntly, you like what you like. If a person acts on an attraction that is illegal they should be punished and put in a position where they cannot do it again.

However, we should be careful not to hate people who have sexually deviant thoughts. A man that is attracted to 8 year old girls is no different than a man who likes other men. Both of them cannot help what they are attracted to, and both of them could be perfectly great people on and intellectual and emotional level.

If you're lucky, when you start to feel your own sexuality you will feel attracted so someone of the opposite sex that is around your same age. If not, then thats your cross to bear the rest of your life.

Some people are just unlucky enough to be born with attractions that simply are not able to be fulfilled without hurting another person.. like pedophiles. They are forced to live a life of celabacy or learn to enjoy more normalized sexual behavior.

We should never hate or wish death on people that are pedophiles, homosexuals, or any type of sexual deviant. They cannot help it. Society is right to punish and villify those who act on their selfish deviations at the cost of others.

Child molestors should be killed.

[Kanamori]

What to do with child molesters?

Oh , that didn't actually work did it .

Should child molesters and child rapists get the same punishment?

Along similar lines, is murder worse than child rape/child molestation?

Although child rape is certainly an awful thing, I do not know if murder is worse or not. One can be incredibly scarring -- I cannot even begin to imagine how terrible it must be -- but with the other the chance for life is lost entirely.

[Kanamori]

Sexuality does not define a person, but it cannot be changed within a person. Bluntly, you like what you like.

I wonder if this has been supported by any studies, and to what degree (I would imagine sexual deviance in this area is a bit harder to track than, say, homosexuality).

[Louis VI the Fat]

For all those advocating killing, what do you think of this

I say give the guy a medal and put him on a government payroll.

[Tribesman]

And could we stop with the Church-bashing?
Why?
It is my church so I have every right to complain about its failings in dealing with clerical child abuse , failings that went on and on for years .

[Kralizec]

Caution: What I'm going to type now is going to upset a lot of you

Todays societies, and ESPECIALLY Dutch society, force young people and especially girls to become...err, mature early on. This is the MTV generation, kids being stimulated everywhere they look. In the Netherlands C&A is selling string underware for girls as young as 12! I could think of more such examples, but that would be kind of redundant.
When discos fail to keep 13 year old girls out (and I mean come on, bouncers are doing this several evenings per week- how difficult is it to tell if a girl is 13 or 21?)
Older guys visit those discos, guys who also grew up with MTV etc...on top of this, it's not just a case of an older guy wanting a young girl- the young girl wants him too.
Stuff like that happens outside of discos too. Kids have sex younger and younger when the years pass, and don't mind doing it with somebody way older.
So it's easy to put them in jail, and even easier to give them the electric chair. Ignore the root of the problem and just kill the guy, the mob approves anyway.

I know this isn't what you meant in your post Don, but those guys fall under "pedophile" too and I wanted to add some nuance here. As for the kind of guy you're talking about, ie the old pervert who abducts little girls in cars, I can be brief. Unless we can be very, very certain that in a particular case there's practicly no risk of recidivism, life long imprisonment. Otherwise a long sentence and compulsory psychiatric treatment before released in the open (TBS in the Netherlands allows this lifelong, dunno about the rest of the world)
So no public floggings, live executions on TV, etc

[Goofball]

Well. Like The Don, I also cannot reconcile myself to the death penalty. Unlike Signor Corleone, my disagreement with the death penalty comes not from religious/moral beliefs, but from my observation that our justice systems are extremely far from perfect, and I don't believe we can always be certain we are executing the right person.

Having said that, I also cannot buy into the public corporal punishment school of thought. It's just too barbaric and again, our legal systems are not surefire enough for me to be comfortable that we would be strapping the right guy into the stocks in the public square, then administering a torture that would leave his flesh shredded as he stood in pools of his own blood. And quite frankly, I would not want to be a part of a society that condoned such a thing.

What to do with child molesters?

Simple.

Lock 'em up. Forever. No chance of release, ever.

It shouldn't be about revenge. It should be about punishment, and keeping society safe.

Locking them up accomplishes both.

[Devastatin Dave]

And could we stop with the Church-bashing?
Why?
It is my church so I have every right to complain about its failings in dealing with clerical child abuse , failings that went on and on for years .

Yup, its only allowed to bash Christianity here.