Results 1 to 30 of 88

Thread: What to do with child molesters?

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    11,454

    Default Re: What to do with child molesters?

    What purpose does the death of the pedophile serve -- aside from vengeance.

    Removal from society until cured (which is unlikely at best) is a necessity.

    Working to identify any possible genetic component, definable mental abberation so as to head off such horrible events before they occur is highly desirable.

    Torture or cruelty in effecting punishment is simply sadism. I have problems seeing the value of torture to extract information that may save lives, enacting torture or maiming a criminal so as to let her/him suffer more seems a little sick. If their sins have earned them eternal torture in some classical version of Hell, it will arrive soon enough and last long enough without society adding to it -- and lowering itself in the process.

    If the only means of effectively removing such a criminal from society is death, it should at the least be quick and as painless as possible. We do put down mad dogs, but we don't drag them behind a pickup truck for 6 miles to accomplish it.

    Seamus
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  2. #2
    Mystic Bard Member Soulforged's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Another Skald
    Posts
    2,138

    Default Re: What to do with child molesters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
    If the only means of effectively removing such a criminal from society is death, it should at the least be quick and as painless as possible. We do put down mad dogs, but we don't drag them behind a pickup truck for 6 miles to accomplish it.
    You can remove him from society if you want with life in prison. That's the equivalent here to death penalty. If the state makes a mistake they've the possibility to take him out. But again this is not a problem of vengeance. The retribution (possition that I'm begining to abandon) gives rational canons of proportionality to the matter. If you put a murderer in jail, let's say for life, then the molester cannot have that punishment, it has to be much less. After all the state cannot tell you what's best for you. Then if you commit the crime you're for, let's say, 10 years 15 max in jail and then you get out. This kind of reaction of people calling other mans "dogs" or "rabid dogs" or doing that kind of anallogy really impresses me, hopefully the law considers them humans nontheless.
    Born On The Flames

  3. #3
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    11,454

    Default Re: What to do with child molesters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulforged
    You can remove him from society if you want with life in prison. That's the equivalent here to death penalty. If the state makes a mistake they've the possibility to take him out. But again this is not a problem of vengeance. The retribution (possition that I'm begining to abandon) gives rational canons of proportionality to the matter. If you put a murderer in jail, let's say for life, then the molester cannot have that punishment, it has to be much less. After all the state cannot tell you what's best for you. Then if you commit the crime you're for, let's say, 10 years 15 max in jail and then you get out. This kind of reaction of people calling other mans "dogs" or "rabid dogs" or doing that kind of anallogy really impresses me, hopefully the law considers them humans nontheless.
    Please note that the initial line of my post spoke against the judicial use of the death penalty. The "rabid dog" analogy was only a fallback point, noting that cruelty in punishment was unjustified even if you believe death to be a valid judicial penalty. Aim your sarcasm at the totality of my message, do not pick and choose separate bits. To do so is unfair to my point. If my point is not clearly expressed enough for you, ask me to clarify.

    As to your other point (proportionality in sentencing and the state's right to act/control in such instances), I believe my rights cease when they harm the life, liberty or property of others. In the case of violent crime, I believe society has the reluctant duty to incarcerate the malefactor so as to protect society as a whole. Graduated sentencing and an often haphazard parole system may not be accomplishing that goal. I have little sympathy whatsoever for recidivists, and I am annoyed that my country's judicial system allows for too much of it.

    Seamus
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  4. #4
    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Denver working on the Railroad
    Posts
    10,660

    Default Re: What to do with child molesters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
    As to your other point (proportionality in sentencing and the state's right to act/control in such instances), I believe my rights cease when they harm the life, liberty or property of others. In the case of violent crime, I believe society has the reluctant duty to incarcerate the malefactor so as to protect society as a whole. Graduated sentencing and an often haphazard parole system may not be accomplishing that goal. I have little sympathy whatsoever for recidivists, and I am annoyed that my country's judicial system allows for too much of it.

    Seamus
    Couldn't agree with you more.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

  5. #5
    Yesdachi swallowed by Jaguar! Member yesdachi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    LA, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,454

    Default Re: What to do with child molesters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulforged
    You can remove him from society if you want with life in prison.
    Being in prison is not being removed from society.
    Peace in Europe will never stay, because I play Medieval II Total War every day. ~YesDachi

  6. #6
    Mystic Bard Member Soulforged's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Another Skald
    Posts
    2,138

    Default Re: What to do with child molesters?

    Quote Originally Posted by yesdachi
    Being in prison is not being removed from society.
    yes it's. They're called "cilvil deads". Trully.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus
    If the only means of effectively removing such a criminal from society is death, it should at the least be quick and as painless as possible. We do put down mad dogs, but we don't drag them behind a pickup truck for 6 miles to accomplish it.
    A) My post was not aimed with sarcasm. b) It was not aimed at you, but in general. c) I was against your last point (the one quoted). D) The dogma in law, and law itself, provide general appliable laws (norms, principles, models) that must be abstract. The judge can move within those lines. The legislation cannot leave to the arbitrarianess of the judge the decision over the kind or intensity of the punishment.
    I believe my rights cease when they harm the life, liberty or property of others.
    I too.
    In the case of violent crime, I believe society has the reluctant duty to incarcerate the malefactor so as to protect society as a whole.
    I too, though I differ in the way that society intercedes.
    Graduated sentencing and an often haphazard parole system may not be accomplishing that goal.
    I believe that too, but as a general rule. In concret cases if there's no need for more reprehenssion then the subject can and must be freed (if I understood the meaning of parole). However in the somewhat inverse case (reincidence) I totally disagree, the state must limit itself to judge actions and not persons, wich this rule does.
    I have little sympathy whatsoever for recidivists, and I am annoyed that my country's judicial system allows for too much of it.
    I don't understand the word "recidivist" (it would help me if you explain it to me ).
    Last edited by Soulforged; 09-29-2005 at 03:13.
    Born On The Flames

  7. #7
    Member Member sharrukin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Canada west coast
    Posts
    2,276

    Default Re: What to do with child molesters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulforged
    I don't understand the word "recidivist" (it would help me if you explain it to me ).
    It means a criminal who is a repeat offender. Usually in the case of child molestors it is half a dozen child victims or more before the state actually does something.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
    -- John Stewart Mills

    But from the absolute will of an entire people there is no appeal, no redemption, no refuge but treason.
    LORD ACTON

  8. #8
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    11,454

    Default Re: What to do with child molesters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulforged
    ... However in the somewhat inverse case (reincidence) I totally disagree, the state must limit itself to judge actions and not persons, wich this rule does. I don't understand the word "recidivist" (it would help me if you explain it to me ).
    A recidivist is a repeat offender, a person for whom criminal acts may well have become a modus vivendi. I believe you are addressing the same thing when you say "reincidence" (American English would use the word recurrence or re-occurrence).

    You seem to be advancing the position that each action be judged and dealt with on an individual basis, and that a person with a history of similar actions be treated no differently than a person for whom a criminal action is an anomaly. While valid on a philosophical level, I do not believe that this would be practical. In my country, most crime is the work of people who pursue criminal activity as a career. Such individuals are a threat to social order and should be removed from society more or less permanently (rehabilitation is possible, though infrequent) as soon as their willingness to become a careerist criminal is demonstrated.

    Seamus
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  9. #9
    Yesdachi swallowed by Jaguar! Member yesdachi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    LA, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,454

    Default Re: What to do with child molesters?

    Originally Posted by yesdachi
    "Being in prison is not being removed from society."

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulforged
    yes it's. They're called "cilvil deads". Trully.
    A society is a sum of its parts. Prisons and the prisoners in them are a part of the sum. Being given a title doesn’t remove them from society and neither does hiding them away. They are a financial burden and force a negative influence on the people.

    Here’s an exert from a report I found on $ spent in my state, other states (like CA) are way higher…

    Michigan’s Department of Corrections will spend more than $1.7 billion from the state’s general fund this year, consuming more than 20 percent of the state’s general fund revenues. The state’s prison population, now around 49,000 inmates, has risen by more than 40 percent since the early 1990s. The MDOC requires nearly 19,000 employees, and according to the state Senate Fiscal Agency, it costs approximately $28,000 each year to imprison an inmate in Michigan.

    How can something that takes 20% of my tax money, and has 49,000 people in it not be a part of my society? And this is only the money factor and not the harder to quantify “influence” factor that these monsters force on society with just their presence.

    Criminals in prison may be removed from the mainstream but are still very much a part of society.

    20% of my tax money!!! GAH!!!

    PS. If you try and counter with “it costs more to sentence the death penalty than life in prison” I can refute that nonsense.
    Peace in Europe will never stay, because I play Medieval II Total War every day. ~YesDachi

  10. #10

    Default Re: What to do with child molesters?

    As with any sex offender lock them up and don't let them out. The re-offending rates are shockingly high.

  11. #11
    is not a senior Member Meneldil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    France
    Posts
    3,074

    Default Re : What to do with child molesters?

    I just watched a tv documentary about recidivist rapers, and apparently both physical castration and chemical castration aren't fully effective.

    The guy may still buy testosterone pills (?) and rape another woman/child.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO