How Important is Evolution

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I mean the teaching of it? Do we really need to be taught Darwinism to build a fission reactor?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Not at all. It does not effect life in any way shape or form. While the theory is a very good one, I do not beleive it explains, fully at least, the creation of the World. I'm more of a Social Darwinist, to be honest. Natural selection may be natural, but it sure as [bleep] ain't random.

[Kanamori]

I mean the teaching of it? Do we really need to be taught Darwinism to build a fission reactor?

You certainly do not need it to build a fission reactor, but you need it to understand how species are grouped into philum, genus and such.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I'm not trying to be a sarcastic, smart-ass, either. I'm just wondering aloud really.

And I also meant the fission reactor as an example, not a specific. Essentially, what branches of science are based on evolution? Certainly modern biology and zoology.

It's just that the outcry that goes "If we allow Intelligent Design, we'll revert back to the Stone Age" doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

[Kraxis]

I'm not trying to be a sarcastic, smart-ass, either. I'm just wondering aloud really.

And I also meant the fission reactor as an example, not a specific. Essentially, what branches of science are based on evolution? Certainly modern biology and zoology.

It's just that the outcry that goes "If we allow Intelligent Design, we'll revert back to the Stone Age" doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

The Stone Age argument isn't really meant ot mean we revert to the Stone Age, why should anyone even believe it.

It is meant to express a devolution of society I guess (note the pun ).

[Azi Tohak]

Yes teaching it is important. It proves that God is dead, which is the goal of how many people on this board?

Much of biology uses the theory, so yes, it should be taught.

Azi

[Goofball]

I mean the teaching of it? Do we really need to be taught Darwinism to build a fission reactor?

Other things you don't need to study in order to build a fission reactor:

Literature
History
Music
Art
Psychology
Medicine

Should we scrap all of those from the "need to know" list as well?

[discovery1]

It's critical to pretty much all of biology isn't it?

[econ21]

I am not sure I can think of a more important thing to teach, at least in terms of self-knowledge. I know there are pitfalls with sociobiology etc, but it is hard to escape the conclusion that how we got here (evolution) determines an awful lot of what how we behave now we are here (social science). It will take a lot of difficult work to fill in the dots, but I think it is not hard to see there will be a pretty impressive picture that emerges. The moral, religious and personal implications are rather fascinating too, although I confess I find them rather dark.

I'm not a natural scientist, but I suspect we haven't seen anything yet in terms of the practical and intellectual contribution genetics will make to future knowledge in that area. Just knowing there is a gene you can insert to make a fruitfly homosexual is pretty mindblowing. Less frivolously, future improvements in agricultural and medical technology will probably depend on genetic research. Do you need to know evolution to research genetics? I'm not sure, but I suspect most geneticists would say it belongs in genetics 101.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I don't really know about genetics. I'll probably be attacked by some real geneticist, but it seems like you don't need to know the evolutionary relationships between species because you have the genetic relationships between them.

I am not sure I can think of a more important thing to teach, at least in terms of self-knowledge. I know there are pitfalls with sociobiology etc, but it is hard to escape the conclusion that how we got here (evolution) determines an awful lot of what how we behave now we are here (social science). It will take a lot of difficult work to fill in the dots, but I think it is not hard to see there will be a pretty impressive picture that emerges. The moral, religious and personal implications are rather fascinating too, although I confess I find them rather dark.

I take it you're not a big fan of social Darwinism, then.

[ichi]

How important is Copernican Theory?

I mean the teaching of it? Do we really need to be taught Copernicanism to build a windmill or water wheel?

For those who don't know, Copernican Theory states that the Earth revolves with other planets around the Sun, and Pope Urban VIII was in charge when Inquisitors found Galileo guilty of heresy and sentenced him to life imprisonment for discussing the 'theory'

ichi

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Touche.

Pwned.

[Papewaio]

You don't need to know anything to build a fission reactor.

There are ones found in nature such as Oklo (I studied the Barium isotope drift for my 3rd year physics project on Thermal Ionisation Mass Spectrometers).

Oklo: Natural Nuclear Reactors

So nature makes fission reactors. Oh and evolution helps determine the atmospheric content required to make the right oxides.

[A.Saturnus]

I mean the teaching of it? Do we really need to be taught Darwinism to build a fission reactor?

Well, some biologist said once: "Nothing in biology makes any sense except seen in the light of evolution." So, what we have to consider is, is biology important?

[Rodion Romanovich]

I mean the teaching of it? Do we really need to be taught Darwinism to build a fission reactor?

Darwinism should not be confused with modern evolution models. Darwin's achievement was mostly only to discover and prove the principle. Using the principle to create an accurate scientific model is something that hasn't been done until today. Darwin's teachings are too lacking to teach, we should instead teach the modern more complete versions of evolution models with loads of examples. There are several fields in which evolution is necessary to know about:

1. psycology
2. medicine
3. political and society philosophy
4. the dangers of breeding animals and letting all our meat come from only a few races of only a few species of animals.
5. how civilization causes undesired breeding of mankind in directions that we don't desire

1. Understanding which behaviors we have can easily be derived from the principle of discovering which behaviors are most benefitial. Applying a method similar to statistical Markov chains can give us pretty good insight in behavior and enable us to create a good model of it.
2. Most medicin works differently depending on genetical composition of the user. A lethal dose for one patient can be a tenth of what another patient needs. A lot of modern medicins are pointless without at least some genetical insight.
3. Favoring evil and undesired behaviors in the evolutionary aspect will result in making entire mankind more evil. Things such as driving some people to suicide and punish others with death either by juridical methods or by accidents or sending them to war etc., changes the gene pool of mankind and will, unless action is taken to prevent it (by changing society to stop favoring certain types in this way), result in the extinction of the human species.
4. An epidemia has the potential of completely extincting one of our very little genetically varied soruces of food. There is a potential chance of us even losing two major food producing species at once in this way. Such an event would be disastrous to us. Understanding this can further motivate necessities like birth control, keeping of genetical variety within bred species and keeping habitats for natural non-bred species in the event of our meat-producing species being extincted. Only by realizing this threat - and it can only be realized through knowing evolution - can we counter it in time.
5. this was mentioned in point no. 3.

The backside of evolution and genetics (edit: have to clarify I mean "teaching of evolution and genetics") is cloning and other acts that would remove the magic of life of a human, and probably finally and irrevocably lose our moral standpoints against killing and similar. Also genetical modification of living humans, which would remove the entire point of love. Reproduction through laboratory methods also has a danger of making us lose the point of sex. Imagine how fun a society where life has no meaning, love doesn't exist, and sex doesn't exist, would be. Evolution can also teach us how certain behaviors and society structures can lead to increase in malaciousness and spread of STD's. In the future, we might end up needing full-body-covering condoms in order to have sex, if over-population, globalization (mainly travelling back and forth) and similar phenomenons continue. If we're wise enough to understand evolution, we'll realize these dangers and counter them. If not, we'll use genetics technology for creating such a future scenario.

[Kraxis]

You guys all come up withgood points as to why evolution is important outside biology, but one point at least remains. I have thus taken it upon myself to present it in the absence of better qualified people.

Take a look at cars for instance.
They evolve, with the prime factor for survival is not how easy it is to get food (fuel) but if the car can gather up prey (humans).
Quite simply cars hav had many many dead-ends. Cars that couldn't cut it and died out, other more suitable cars took their place. It even fits that even the old successful breeds, such as Ford T, eventually almost died out, to the point it didn't reproduce anymore. The simple fact is that at a point other cars were better than the Ford T.
Not satisfied?
Take a look at American cars compared to Japanese and Europeans cars. The former are generally bigger, longer and heavier. This was born out of the often lacking roads and open spaces ofteh early 20th century. Meanwhile in Europe the roads were slim, and the cities extremely dense. There was no room for big cars. In that habitat the small Fiat 500 was top dog for a while, it could get into even the smallest alleys. Was it comfortable to travel long distances in? No, so it didn't do too well in America, where its prime advantage was unimportant, and its disadvantages a severe drawback.

Those cars have evolved from pretty much the same creature. The engined carriage, but the different habitats forced a fork in the evolution of the car.

The same can be argued about tanks. There too we find many dead designs, tanks that didn't survive as a concept.

The main difference is that the cars and tanks don't evolve themselves, but the principles as to survival are the same.

[Papewaio]

A better analogy would be Car companies and how they compete with each other for the same environmenal niche. How generations of cars change to meet consumer (environmental) demands.

[Leodegar]

In my opinion there are two reasons, why it is very important to teach evolution.

1. It is extremely important for medicine/drug developement.
For example, if giving anti-biotica to a patient, it is very important to understand how bacteria will build up resistance to that, in order to avoid that. And that simply is evolution/selection.
Another obvious thing to me is, the necessity to understand the spread of certain pathogens from one species to another. Just think of bird flu, which spread from birds to humans. Or HIV, which many people claim to originally have been an ape disease. That is also evolution and can be vital to understand.
A third thing is cancer. Cancer is caused by your on mutated (evolution) somatic cells. So, to early recognize (and in the future hopefully to prevent) cancer, it is crucial to know what exactly happens and why...

2. I think it is generally a poor thing to forbid teaching of an accredited thesis. Even of a more controversial thing. Of course it is necessary to also mention and discuss doubts concerning evolution. But I think it is wrong and even dangerous if one group in society tries to totally deny you access to knowledge, dissagreeing with their believes.

[bmolsson]

A better analogy would be Car companies and how they compete with each other for the same environmenal niche. How generations of cars change to meet consumer (environmental) demands.

So it's all about capitalism... And that would make creationism communistic I guess.....