Hordes!

[CBR]

Playing ERE and thought I was doing ok. Had a Vandal horde moving back and forth but I kept the two nearby bridges covered. Then Huns came and took the only Goth city which turned them into a horde which materialised within my border. GAH!


CBR

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Looks like fun!

[Malcolm Big Head]

Only 4 stacks.

[Patricius]

Four is not quite a horde. I was expecting something more impressive, if not quite MTW Mongols. But probably other larger barbarian factions can have larger hordes. Four, though, is quite enough if the stack moves efficiently.

Awaiting Friday....

[CBR]

Well its not just the four stacks of Goths as the possiblity of them wiping out one of my two bridge armies which would leave me open for the two northen hordes too.

Three of them are now moving towards Constantinople while Im desperately gathering what units I can get heh.


CBR

[Steppe Merc]

So the Horde units, are they weaker? Or just renamed of the same unit?

[Patricius]

Could you update us with screenshots of the horde's progress? It's something to look at while waiting.

[CBR]

Well now I got all 4 besieging Constantinople. I got one stack in the city but I dont know if I dare to attack heh. I would say about half the enemy units are steppe horde spearmen which are not that good but there are some horsearchers and chosen swordsmen too.

[Kraxis]

So the Horde units, are they weaker? Or just renamed of the same unit?

Generally a bit weaker versions of the original.

Seems CBR has experienced the Goth plea for sanctuary, and let them in of course.

In my game the Huns have managed to breach my border (the was with the Sassanids has bled off my money). But I continually repulse them at that northern city. Their Horde Spearmen are simply no match for Lanciarii on top of walls. And when they are taken out they are forcedto retreat as they have no other infantry.

And for some reason the Goths have been able to keep hold of Campus Iazyges from the Vandals (despite repeated efforts to take it), so they are now moving the main part of their horde to the west. But the Goths are seriously weakened and I think the last effort now will break them. And then I have nother horde on my toes.

CBR, how did you manage to scrounge up those troops? I have been forced to keep troops at home due to unrest. Did you adopt a non-comitment to the religious issue? I'm thinking more and more that it was a fault by me to turn to chritianity.

[CBR]

8 of them are mercs I have hired within last couple of turns. A few units have come from Asia Minor just last turn and have been building a few in Constantinople.

I only had a bit of unrest and have gone for Christianity.


CBR

[Patricius]

Well now I got all 4 besieging Constantinople. I got one stack in the city but I dont know if I dare to attack heh. I would say about half the enemy units are steppe horde spearmen which are not that good but there are some horsearchers and chosen swordsmen too.

That looks serious .

I hope that the problems that occurred for besieged whenever a human controlled army sallied, in terms of pathing and whatever else are gone.

I wonder how this develops....

[SigniferOne]

The size of the horde is directly related to the size of the last city of the faction. If it's a monumental city, then the horde will be enormous too (think about it, if it's a city with 24,000 population, and most of those will end up as a horde...).

[Kraxis]

The best to do is simply to weather the storm like they did originally. Let them batter themselves on the walls since beating them in the field will be expensive.

[CBR]

Well I sallied out and faced two enemy armies. Im normally used to the AI pulling back and find a spot to defend so I have time and room to deploy my army. But in this case the AI only moved a bit back while sending HA forward to engage. The AI had moved its infantry a bit to one side and suddenly decided to attack. Luckily their spearmen are not good so I managed to hold them and finally break them. Still lost half my army though in a chaotic battle heh.


CBR

[Dimeola]

Well its not just the four stacks of Goths as the possiblity of them wiping out one of my two bridge armies which would leave me open for the two northen hordes too.

Three of them are now moving towards Constantinople while Im desperately gathering what units I can get heh.


CBR

hmmmm.....
D

[Kraxis]

Well I sallied out and faced two enemy armies. Im normally used to the AI pulling back and find a spot to defend so I have time and room to deploy my army. But in this case the AI only moved a bit back while sending HA forward to engage. The AI had moved its infantry a bit to one side and suddenly decided to attack. Luckily their spearmen are not good so I managed to hold them and finally break them. Still lost half my army though in a chaotic battle heh.


CBR

Hehehe... As I said you should have weathered the storm. You take farless losses during sieges than before. A couple in each unit, that's all.

[Bob the Insane]

Generally a bit weaker versions of the original.
CBR, how did you manage to scrounge up those troops? I have been forced to keep troops at home due to unrest. Did you adopt a non-comitment to the religious issue? I'm thinking more and more that it was a fault by me to turn to chritianity.

Can't spek for CBR of course but in my WRE game I think I have seriously messed things up for myself but try to force wide speard adoption of Christianity....

[Kraxis]

Can't spek for CBR of course but in my WRE game I think I have seriously messed things up for myself but try to force wide speard adoption of Christianity....

Yes, in WRE I think it is a far bigger problem. Already racked with widespread unrest and a lousy economy, I think it is better to keep going with the mixed system until you have stabilized the empire. Sadly I can't see where that will go. So far I have been in great trouble several times with cities blowing over with unrest. That has forced me to keep upgrading the buildings for happiness and law. Several cities also have daily games to keep them in line. Alexandria is also problematic with the 44000 inhabitants. No army can keep them down.

It has become a real chore to find suited governors, looking only at law, happiness and unrest factors in his capabilities.

[professorspatula]

These hordes definitely make the game a bit more interesting. You can't just finish certain factions off without setting yourself up for more troubles from them in the future. It now makes sense if the enemy faction has 2 settlements left, that you take the largest settlement first so when the final one falls, the horde that emerges is smaller. I'd be interested to see if the mods try to expand the map again and add lots more provences. That would dramatically reduce the effectiveness of the horde as a force as it would only be able to make an impact on a smaller proportion of land. Currently hordes can have enough men to take a fair chunk of land or wipe out a large part of your army.

[Kraxis]

I think the mods would be going in the wrong direction with more settlements. That means less fieldbattles and the Hordes will be weakened severely. What if the Sarmatians, Butgundians and Goths all start with 4 cities. How many chances are there that we would see those and the two starting Hordes on the map? The Hordes would simply be swallowed up by more cities. And with no Hordes we will see a marked decline in the push-effect on the two Roman empires.

[TB666]

I think CA did the right move with actually reducing the number of provinces instead of increasing them.
So I agree with you Kraxis that more provinces will make horde kinda weak.
Right now they are feared because every settlement is important.

[Mongoose]

Dumb question:Do hordes slow down after reloading?

[TB666]

Dumb question:Do hordes slow down after reloading?

In my games, no.

[Steppe Merc]

I think the mods would be going in the wrong direction with more settlements. That means less fieldbattles and the Hordes will be weakened severely. What if the Sarmatians, Butgundians and Goths all start with 4 cities. How many chances are there that we would see those and the two starting Hordes on the map? The Hordes would simply be swallowed up by more cities. And with no Hordes we will see a marked decline in the push-effect on the two Roman empires.

Well, I think more provinces are key. They allow expansion of the the map, and make it harder for people to conquer historically difficult lands. Besides, there were a lot more cities than are represented, not less.

And by having more factions, as some mods do, it alows the amount of field battles to be the same, as well as creating "push effects".

[Kraxis]

Well, I think more provinces are key. They allow expansion of the the map, and make it harder for people to conquer historically difficult lands. Besides, there were a lot more cities than are represented, not less.

And by having more factions, as some mods do, it alows the amount of field battles to be the same, as well as creating "push effects".

I do not agree. Of course there were more cities, more than can ever be put on the map. That is not the point.

The push-effect is the Hordes' incursions into Empire territory. Without the Hordes the barbarians would have a hard time pushing into the Empires. If the Huns and Vandals are soaked up by the increased numbers of Goth, Sarmatian and Burgundian cities (not to speak of Frank and Alemanni cities) then where will the push come from? The Huns and and Vandals are exhausted from their march (most units have returned to peasantry). The Goths, Sarmatians and Burgundians are weakened by losing lots of units and cities (percentagewise). Left are only the western barbarians that so far in my games have done little against the two empires (indeed the Franks have expanded eastwards).

But of course, I cannot and won't stop you from making more cities. It would be a great way to actually see if I'm right or not. And in the end I could personally chose not to play the mods with many cities (though the general trend was towards lots of cities).

[rebelscum]

Hordes!
you can get some cream for that.

[Steppe Merc]

Ok, I didn't understand what you meant before. Now I get were you're coming from.

And I admit it's not as big of a deal with the mod I'm with, since there shouldn't be a huge amount of hordes running into the civilized folks. But I can see the desire to do so in BI, however I wish there was a better way to represent them. Can a faction choose to go horde without losing their city? For example, if they know that a huge army is coming, can they go horde, and run away from them? Probably not...

[TB666]

Can a faction choose to go horde without losing their city? For example, if they know that a huge army is coming, can they go horde, and run away from them? Probably not...

Well yes you can choose to go into horde mode if you only have 1 settlement left.
I did that when I played with the goths and I saw the huns.
If I stayed and fought I would have lost my regular army so I decided to abandon my settlement thus atleast have 1 army that are real soldiers instead of the horde troops.

[Kraxis]

Well yes you can choose to go into horde mode if you only have 1 settlement left.
I did that when I played with the goths and I saw the huns.
If I stayed and fought I would have lost my regular army so I decided to abandon my settlement thus atleast have 1 army that are real soldiers instead of the horde troops.

Hmmm... Didn't know that... Must have missed it in the manual. Now it makes it rather interesting. Just too bad the AI doesn't use it. That could have been a most dangerous situation for the player.

[TB666]

You can see it on the building menu.
It is on the left side and is the button that looks like a hut.