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  1. #1

    Default Re: Faction with best Army

    Quote Originally Posted by Seasoned Alcoholic
    If you want a core of specialist heavy infantry, the Germans are probably the best choice since they have effective shock troops (Night Raiders), misc (Screechers), as well as close-combat specialists (Chosen Axes, Beserkers).
    Eh, you seem a bit off here. Chosen Axemen and Berserkers are better shock troops than Night Raiders while the raiders are more likely to survive a prolonged melee. The former both have crazy high attack but pitiful defense (though the 'zerkers do have multiple hit points) while the latter has strong attack (14 IIRC, which matches Urban Cohorts) but tolerable defense as well (10-ish instead of the 5 or 6 of the others). Note that the raiders have armor and shields, unlike Chosen Axemen and Berserkers. Armor counts for a lot more than "defense skill" since armor is non-directional while shields bring arrow protection ("defense skill" and shield points are about even in melee -- both protect the front and one flank, the only difference being which flank).

  2. #2

    Default Re: Faction with best Army

    I think the Germans have the best. You can play the entire game with just their spearman. Plus by the time you get halfway through they are very tough troops. The German Cavalry is cheap and good. While some of the more specialized infantry are nice to have around they are slow to build, require special structures, and if you are an advancing army this will make them hard to reinforce. The Axemen are good enough and only slightly less capable than NightRaiders. By the time you get them you should have sufficient leadership and experience to make them work. Remember you have to keep your army moving and take those provinces fast or the enemy will counter-attack. Germany has that ability.
    Carthage, (and others) are resource restricted. They just can't build elephant units anywhere they want. This makes conquering Europe a little tedious if you put your elephants into the fray.

    Countless times I have smashed armies 5 times my strenght with just German noble cavalry and barbarian cavalry. If I have spearman they can hold the line long enough for my cav to flank and the powerful charge bonus does the rest.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Faction with best Army

    With Carthage you only really need elephants to fight the Romans, the Greeks and the Egyptians.. depending on your expansion. Otherwise, Rond Shields/Long Shields are good enough. And you get Sacred Band Cav..

    Nevertheless, I agree German Cav are excellent.

  4. #4

    Post Re: Faction with best Army

    Quote Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius
    Quote Originally Posted by Seasoned Alcoholic
    If you want a core of specialist heavy infantry, the Germans are probably the best choice since they have effective shock troops (Night Raiders), misc (Screechers), as well as close-combat specialists (Chosen Axes, Beserkers).
    Eh, you seem a bit off here. Chosen Axemen and Berserkers are better shock troops than Night Raiders while the raiders are more likely to survive a prolonged melee. The former both have crazy high attack but pitiful defense (though the 'zerkers do have multiple hit points) while the latter has strong attack (14 IIRC, which matches Urban Cohorts) but tolerable defense as well (10-ish instead of the 5 or 6 of the others). Note that the raiders have armor and shields, unlike Chosen Axemen and Berserkers. Armor counts for a lot more than "defense skill" since armor is non-directional while shields bring arrow protection ("defense skill" and shield points are about even in melee -- both protect the front and one flank, the only difference being which flank).
    Yeah I see your point, perhaps if it was re-phrased as "...a specialist core of heavy infantry...", rather than "a core of specialist heavy infantry", this makes more sense.

    However, I use Night Raiders as shock troops because of the 'frighten_foot' attribute they both have in the script - essentially they may demoralise opponents when used correctly since they possess this attribute.

    I'd originally modded my copy of vanilla 1.2 to improve most of the existing units defence skill / armour ratings / hitpoints in order to prolong melee. Tbh, the Very Hard difficulty setting shortens the length of SP battles against the AI. From memory the AI and human player receive combat bonuses of +4 on this difficulty level. This results in shorter battles, and typically results in the AI / human's army routing almost soon as melee is underway. Another TW forum highlighted that Medium battle difficulty settings were more challenging, as battles lasted considerably longer compared to Very Hard.

    From the original text files:

    Chosen Axemen

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    Night Raiders

    PHP Code:
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    Beserkers

    PHP Code:
    type             barb berserker german
     dictionary       barb_berserker_german      
    Berserkers
     category         infantry
     
    class            light
     voice_type       Heavy_1
     soldier          barb_berserker
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     attributes       sea_faring
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    You might decide to utilise Night Raiders in sustained melee and / or to commence an attack (or however you deploy them) due to their improved defence values. Tbh, I find the superior offensive values of the specialist attackers (Beserkers, Chosen Axemen) much more devastating toward enemy formations. They can simply bring down enemies at a swifter rate, even if they may reasonable casualties due to wearing next to no armour.

    Beserkers and Chosen Axes (due to their poor armour ratings) make good targets for opposing archers / missile troops. I've seen many MP battles where people have tried to keep these two units as a reserve, only for them to realise that they are easy archer fodder. You might as well use Beserkers and Chosen Axes to carve a path through the enemies' lines before the opposing archers / other missiles get a chance to soften them up before they engage in melee. Then as the enemies' morale is weakening, throw in the Raiders who will literally 'shock' opponents with the 'fighten_foot' attribute. Depends how you play the game though...


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  5. #5

    Default Re: Faction with best Army

    Quote Originally Posted by Seasoned Alcoholic
    However, I use Night Raiders as shock troops because of the 'frighten_foot' attribute they both have in the script - essentially they may demoralise opponents when used correctly since they possess this attribute.

    ...

    You might decide to utilise Night Raiders in sustained melee and / or to commence an attack (or however you deploy them) due to their improved defence values. Tbh, I find the superior offensive values of the specialist attackers (Beserkers, Chosen Axemen) much more devastating toward enemy formations. They can simply bring down enemies at a swifter rate, even if they may reasonable casualties due to wearing next to no armour.

    Beserkers and Chosen Axes (due to their poor armour ratings) make good targets for opposing archers / missile troops. I've seen many MP battles where people have tried to keep these two units as a reserve, only for them to realise that they are easy archer fodder. You might as well use Beserkers and Chosen Axes to carve a path through the enemies' lines before the opposing archers / other missiles get a chance to soften them up before they engage in melee. Then as the enemies' morale is weakening, throw in the Raiders who will literally 'shock' opponents with the 'fighten_foot' attribute. Depends how you play the game though...

    As far as the frighten_foot feature of Night Raiders, I feel that it makes them even better as line infantry since the morale penalty will apply throughout the fight. I think frighten_foot applies whenever you're within a certain distance of the frightening unit, so it probably doesn't matter whether you flank with them or not (so long as you keep them close). I just prefer to use them as the main fighting force due to their additional staying power. The absolute certainty that the fear factor hits my opponent is icing on the cake. I generally don't use a unit *because* it causes fear so much as I do it because they have other perks.

    However, contrary to that general stance I have been known to field Screeching Women occasionally simply for the morale effect. Just keep them safely behind your line raising a ruckus. Also note that it doesn't seem to matter how many units screech. Thinking I was clever, I once had a full 20 unit stack of women stand in one spot raising hell. I hoped the morale effect would be cumulative and insta-rout anyone who came close. Didn't work worth a damn.

    When I play Germania (and I haven't in quite some time -- I enjoy the speeches and Senate politics too much as the Roman), I typically build Night Raiders for my line infantry since Spear Warbands make battles far too easy (generally, phalanx = player wins, regardless of who fields the phalanx). I sometimes add some Chosen Axemen or Berserkers, usually as flankers though sometimes as part of the main infantry body.

    I usually choose Chosens over Berserkers because of their AP bonus and size. Berserkers count as roughly triple size due to their three hit points, so I consider them a "36" man unit instead of 12. Chosens, however, have 40 men per unit. Since retraining a unit does not lower its average valour, the fact that any given berserker is more likely to survive a fight than a single axeman is irrelevant. In terms of combat power, 'zerkers aren't really much stronger than Chosens anyway (+1 attack, -1 defense).

    I suppose you may have a point about archers hitting your flankers, but they must never have caused enough damage for me to worry about it. Of course, I've never played a Germania game to the point where I've had to contend with Egypt.

    In short, I prefer raiders to hold my line and Chosens or 'zerkers to flank, often with a unit of screechers in the back shrieking about something.

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