So ...

**Kraxis** · 10-01-2005, 03:11

Originally Posted by The_Emperor

If your after more of a challenge this will present it to you.

Compared to RTW this campaign is Hard and slower going. You never know when the next Horde will show its ugly face on your doorstep.

Heh... As the ERE my entire northwest is basically black with devastation. When I still held control over Campus Iagyzes the devastation was half the lost money for that province. Then the repeated assaults and sieges drained the garrison so much it revolted (and created the Eastern Rebels). Now the Huns have settled there after starving the Rebels out. I moved my garrison to Dacia (and gave the local rebels a good kicking) to have a more secure border.
That was the second time I was thrown out of a borderprovince with no chance of getting it back soon after.

They are sneaky in that the Rebels get a fair army right away, but your own garrison is spared.

**Kekvit Irae** · 10-01-2005, 04:44

I finally broke down and bought BI.
I'm so far impressed with what I see.

In one game with the Huns, my Hordes just completely overran Constantinople. However, I do see the problem of Hordes being way too powerful. If you take Britain from the WRE, that will trigger the spawning of the Romano British faction Horde, which will march on London. Unless you are prepared with a huge army, you will be quickly overrun.

Night battles are cute, but I have yet to see one where it's useful.

OMG! Shadows! No longer does marching through a forest look like you are marching through a bunch of 2D sticks in the ground. The shadows of the units and the forests REALLY make it a visual enjoyment.

The difficulty of playing the WRE can only be summed up in one quote:

Originally Posted by Garvanko

I almost cried after turn 1.

If you are looking for a good challenge, or at least something refreshing, I suggest picking up BI.

**Kraxis** · 10-01-2005, 05:05

Originally Posted by kekvitirae

Night battles are cute, but I have yet to see one where it's useful.

Two reasons, one more important than the other (you will have to guess which is what).
Firstly your enemy's troops suffer a small moralepenalty if you attack at night.
Secondly if you attack an enemy concentration of armies at night, only those that have the Trait can help the attacked army. Meaning you can single out enemy stacks and thus defeat the enemy in detail.

**Swordsman** · 10-01-2005, 05:37

I have no complaints so far in my ERE campaign as to how the game is performing, but it just seems so "slow". I'm about 70 years in and really haven't had much happen. First campaign so I'm being conservative (forts at bridges/chokepoints, building up my cities, etc.), but the hordes are milling around aimlessly and I have yet to be attacked by anyone but the Sassanids-- and those are mostly probes.

Of course, you could argue that I should be taking the fight to 'em, but I figured to weather the first onslaught before counterattacking-- it just hasn't happened yet. Plus it seems very much a two-front war-- there's nothing going on in about 3/4 of my empire and no potential enemies except for the odd rebel army or two. Guess I had envisioned this massive empire beset from all sides. Sounds like the WRE is a whole different proposition, and it's only one campaign, but for me so far it's been quiet-- TOO quiet.

**lismore** · 10-04-2005, 10:47

Originally Posted by Swordsman

Of course, you could argue that I should be taking the fight to 'em, but I figured to weather the first onslaught before counterattacking-- it just hasn't happened yet. Plus it seems very much a two-front war-- there's nothing going on in about 3/4 of my empire and no potential enemies except for the odd rebel army or two. Guess I had envisioned this massive empire beset from all sides. Sounds like the WRE is a whole different proposition, and it's only one campaign, but for me so far it's been quiet-- TOO quiet.

Hi swordsman

Its interesting what you say. Im 50 years into a VH ERE campaign and I havent had a barbarian cross the frontier. The vandal and hun hordes declared war on each other: the sarmatians turned horde but have just walked backwards and forwards, the goths have just sat there and according to the faction scrolls the WRE is the biggest. All the barbarians are staying put.

The biggest challenge so far has been chasing swimming kurdish javilenmen

Is there a way to mod the barbarians to make them want to fight?

**Doug-Thompson** · 10-01-2005, 06:08

How can you say it's RTW as it should have been? Egyptian chariots in the 3rd Century B.C. shouldn't have been. Some of us are still waiting to play a decent RTW campaign, and it shouldn't require mods to do it.

No, the expansion does not fix the Egyptian chariots and shrieking women, etc., in R:TW. If I understood Froggie correctly, though, she was asking if the Barbarians campaign was as good and challenging as R:TW should have been. At least that's how I understood her question.

Clearly I agree with you about the silliness of Egyptian chariots in the 3rd Century, and can find quotes on other threads where I've said so many times, Puzz3D. Let me put it this way: If Barbarian Invasion had been the original game and R:TW the expansion, it seems there would have been no Egyptian chariots.

To be perfectly explicit:

Is the Barbarian Invasion campaign better, more challenging and plausible than the R:TW campaign?

Yes, much.

Are there considerable improvements to the tactical game that will help make the original R:TW game much better?

Yes. There have already been numerous examples, and I'm about to post another one. See my upcoming post about armor and archery.

Does the expansion solve the "hard-wired" in-the-design problems, such as Egyptian chariots, that spoil the fun of the original campaign for many who have some sense of history?

No.

Is Barbarian Invasion a seperate game -- more of an improved full-blown sequel than an expansion with a bonus game, ala Viking Invasion?

Yes.

Can you play the Barbarian Invasion campaign with a knowledege of history without feeling irritated by some of the liberties taken?

No.

Can you play the Barbarian Invasion campaign with a knowledge of history without feeling like you just landed in Oz?

Yes.

**Divinus Arma** · 10-01-2005, 06:25

Although I have not bought it (because I am broke), I most certainly will. Sooner or later. Its TW! I can't let a TW title pass and not at least give it a shot.

I'll wait. Probably a few months. Get the wife to buy it for the holidays and such...

I care far more about EB then BI.

**Turin** · 10-01-2005, 07:54

Hey Frog, nice work with the Princess Eleanor story, haven't read it all yet, but I love what I have seen thus far. Best fan fiction by far, hope you will publish one day!

Anyways, about BI... I'm not sure what the people above me are thinking, my assumption is that they don't think.

On the strategic map, BI is decent, the niffty new features are nice, but one'll probably get used to them in a matter of hours.

It's when the battle start that... oh the disappointment. Perhaps it is simply because I have been playing RTR (great mod, will satisfy you until Europa B. comes out), but just looking at the models and skins that CA has the nerve to publish is painful!

Not only are the new models and skins badly made, but most of them are clearly recycled (badly) from RTW. The very (I think there are all of 10-15) few new models are also badly made. Also the same model and a VERY similar skin is use for the same type of unit all across the world! Somehow, the WRE's horse archers look suspiciously similar to those employed by the Sassanids... This is not even mentioning the generic spearmen model which is spammed EVERYWHERE.

Oh and the gameplay... or rather the lack thereof, the AI is a little better, but that's like saying a mentally handicapped person is now reading at a first grade level... oh rapture...

The units move so fast and the heavy cavalry is so stupidly powerful that "tactics" seems to have fallen out of use along with the old Roman legions.

Compared to the level of gameplay that we had in the original Shogun (oh where have gone those days when CA made good games and Christ walked the Earth?), BI is a joke and a farce and a humiliating bastard child.

Don't get the game Frog, oh please, for Eleanor and baby Jesus's sake!

**KSEG** · 10-01-2005, 08:30

Originally Posted by Turin

Anyways, about BI... I'm not sure what the people above me are thinking, my assumption is that they don't think.

Do you have to insult someone because they have a diffarent opinion then you?

**Kraxis** · 10-01-2005, 16:06

Originally Posted by Turin

Anyways, about BI... I'm not sure what the people above me are thinking, my assumption is that they don't think.

Nice!

And my retort is simply that you don't think... Wow right?

**Garvanko** · 10-01-2005, 10:34

Originally Posted by kekvitirae

OMG! Shadows! No longer does marching through a forest look like you are marching through a bunch of 2D sticks in the ground. The shadows of the units and the forests REALLY make it a visual enjoyment.

.

The shadows and visuals in BI has also been improved upon in RTW with the 1.3 patch.