Gods

[edyzmedieval]

Hey guyz.

Can you please give me some info about the following gods?!

Baal - Carthaginian god
Zoroastra - Most important Eastern God
Neptun - Roman God
Jupiter - Roman God
Asklepios - Greek God
Demeter - Greek God

I want info especially about Baal. He's the most important for me.

[Byzantine Prince]

link

This place has everything you'd ever want to know about greek mythology.

[Derfasciti]

Jupiter was the equivalent of zeus. King of gods.

Neptune was Jupiter's brother. Patron of horses and god of sea.

If I could ask out of curiosity, why do you want to know?

[Geoffrey S]

What sort of information do you need? The myths behind the gods? Or the practices of their followers, how they fit into states etc.?

[caesar44]

About Ba'al - http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2938/mythobaal.htm

You know , there are many stories about the Ba'al worshipers in the Hebrew Bible , the most famous is about Eliyahu (Elijah) , Izabel (Jesebel) the Poenician queen of Ah'ab and the 450 Ba'al prophets - וַיַּגֵּד אַחְאָב לְאִיזֶבֶל, אֵת כָּל־אֲשֶׁר עָשָׂה אֵלִיָּהוּ; וְאֵת כָּל־אֲשֶׁר הָרַג אֶת־כָּל־הַנְּבִיאִים בֶּחָרֶב׃ וַתִּשְׁלַח אִיזֶבֶל מַלְאָךְ, אֶל־אֵלִיָּהוּ לֵאמֹר; כֹּה־יַעֲשׂוּן אֱלֹהִים וְכֹה יוֹסִפוּן, כִּי־כָעֵת מָחָר אָשִׂים אֶת־נַפְשְׁךָ, כְּנֶפֶשׁ אַחַד מֵהֶם׃ וַיַּרְא, וַיָּקָם וַיֵּלֶךְ אֶל־נַפְשׁוֹ, וַיָּבֹא בְּאֵר שֶׁבַע אֲשֶׁר לִיהוּדָה; וַיַּנַּח אֶת־נַעֲרוֹ שָׁם׃ וְהוּא־הָלַךְ בַּמִּדְבָּר דֶּרֶךְ יוֹם, וַיָּבֹא וַיֵּשֶׁב תַּחַת רֹתֶם אֶחָת (אֶחָד); וַיִּשְׁאַל אֶת־נַפְשׁוֹ לָמוּת, וַיֹּאמֶר רַב, עַתָּה יְהוָה קַח נַפְשִׁי, כִּי־לֹא־טוֹב אָנֹכִי מֵאֲבֹתָי׃ וַיִּשְׁכַּב וַיִּישַׁן, תַּחַת רֹתֶם אֶחָד; וְהִנֵּה־זֶה מַלְאָךְ נֹגֵעַ בּוֹ, וַיֹּאמֶר לוֹ קוּם אֱכוֹל׃ וַיַּבֵּט וְהִנֵּה מְרַאֲשֹׁתָיו עֻגַת רְצָפִים וְצַפַּחַת מָיִם; וַיֹּאכַל וַיֵּשְׁתְּ, וַיָּשָׁב וַיִּשְׁכָּב׃ וַיָּשָׁב מַלְאַךְ יְהוָה שֵׁנִית וַיִּגַּע־בּוֹ, וַיֹּאמֶר קוּם אֱכֹל; כִּי רַב מִמְּךָ הַדָּרֶךְ׃ וַיָּקָם וַיֹּאכַל וַיִּשְׁתֶּה; וַיֵּלֶךְ בְּכֹחַ הָאֲכִילָה הַהִיא, אַרְבָּעִים יוֹם וְאַרְבָּעִים לַיְלָה, עַד הַר הָאֱלֹהִים חֹרֵב׃ וַיָּבֹא־שָׁם אֶל־הַמְּעָרָה וַיָּלֶן שָׁם;

That is - 18 "I have not made trouble for Israel," Elijah replied. "But you and your father's family have. You have abandoned the LORD's commands and have followed the Baals. 19 Now summon the people from all over Israel to meet me on Mount Carmel. And bring the four hundred and fifty prophets of Baal and the four hundred prophets of Asherah, who eat at Jezebel's table."

20 So Ahab sent word throughout all Israel and assembled the prophets on Mount Carmel. 21 Elijah went before the people and said, "How long will you waver between two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him."
But the people said nothing.

22 Then Elijah said to them, "I am the only one of the LORD's prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets. 23 Get two bulls for us. Let them choose one for themselves, and let them cut it into pieces and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. I will prepare the other bull and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. 24 Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the LORD. The god who answers by fire—he is God."
Then all the people said, "What you say is good."

25 Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, "Choose one of the bulls and prepare it first, since there are so many of you. Call on the name of your god, but do not light the fire." 26 So they took the bull given them and prepared it.
Then they called on the name of Baal from morning till noon. "O Baal, answer us!" they shouted. But there was no response; no one answered. And they danced around the altar they had made.

27 At noon Elijah began to taunt them. "Shout louder!" he said. "Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened." 28 So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. 29 Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention.

30 Then Elijah said to all the people, "Come here to me." They came to him, and he repaired the altar of the LORD, which was in ruins. 31 Elijah took twelve stones, one for each of the tribes descended from Jacob, to whom the word of the LORD had come, saying, "Your name shall be Israel." 32 With the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD, and he dug a trench around it large enough to hold two seahs [a] of seed. 33 He arranged the wood, cut the bull into pieces and laid it on the wood. Then he said to them, "Fill four large jars with water and pour it on the offering and on the wood."

34 "Do it again," he said, and they did it again.
"Do it a third time," he ordered, and they did it the third time. 35 The water ran down around the altar and even filled the trench.

36 At the time of sacrifice, the prophet Elijah stepped forward and prayed: "O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command. 37 Answer me, O LORD, answer me, so these people will know that you, O LORD, are God, and that you are turning their hearts back again."

38 Then the fire of the LORD fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench.

39 When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, "The LORD -he is God! The LORD -he is God!"

40 Then Elijah commanded them, "Seize the prophets of Baal. Don't let anyone get away!" They seized them, and Elijah had them brought down to the Kishon Valley and slaughtered there.

41 And Elijah said to Ahab, "Go, eat and drink, for there is the sound of a heavy rain." 42 So Ahab went off to eat and drink, but Elijah climbed to the top of Carmel, bent down to the ground and put his face between his knees.

43 "Go and look toward the sea," he told his servant. And he went up and looked.
"There is nothing there," he said.
Seven times Elijah said, "Go back."

44 The seventh time the servant reported, "A cloud as small as a man's hand is rising from the sea."
So Elijah said, "Go and tell Ahab, 'Hitch up your chariot and go down before the rain stops you.' "

45 Meanwhile, the sky grew black with clouds, the wind rose, a heavy rain came on and Ahab rode off to Jezreel. 46 The power of the LORD came upon Elijah and, tucking his cloak into his belt, he ran ahead of Ahab all the way to Jezreel.


Such a story .

[Steppe Merc]

Zarathustra (Zoroaster) wasn't a god. He was a propet of Ahura Mazda. Ahura Mazda is the big god, with a bunch of "angels" (demi gods that essentially served him). There is a devil, Ahriman that is always at war with Ahura Mazda.

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks for the info guys.

I want to know because of curiosity. Oh no, I haven't decided to change my religion, especially to some old gods that nobody knows about.

I want also to find out because I was always fascinated by religion. Baal always fascinated me.

Any more info on him?! How did the temples look, what were the rituals....

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Actually a very small number of people still follow Ahura Mazda and the teachings of Zoroaster, maybe you should rethink changing your religion, at least one of those still exists.

[Colovion]

Asklepios was the Greek god of Healing. In fact, I take his name to be the avatar for my Priest in World of Warcraft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asklepios

[edyzmedieval]

Actually a very small number of people still follow Ahura Mazda and the teachings of Zoroaster, maybe you should rethink changing your religion, at least one of those still exists.

If I'm changing my religion(hopefully it won't happen), it would be to Baal or probably Zoroastra.

[Gurkhal]

Here are a few more links regarding Baal.

http://www.pantheon.org/areas/mythol.../articles.html

http://home.comcast.net/~chris.s/canaanite-faq.html

[Byzantine Prince]

If I'm changing my religion(hopefully it won't happen), it would be to Baal or probably Zoroastra.

Read Thus spoke Zarathustra. It's 100% guaranteed to make you an atheist.

[Reverend Joe]

18 "I have not made trouble for Israel," Elijah replied. "But you and your father's family have. You have abandoned the LORD's commands and have followed the Baals. 19 Now summon the people from all over Israel to meet me on Mount Carmel. And bring the four hundred and fifty prophets of Baal and the four hundred prophets of Asherah, who eat at Jezebel's table."

20 So Ahab sent word throughout all Israel and assembled the prophets on Mount Carmel. 21 Elijah went before the people and said, "How long will you waver between two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him."
But the people said nothing.

22 Then Elijah said to them, "I am the only one of the LORD's prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets. 23 Get two bulls for us. Let them choose one for themselves, and let them cut it into pieces and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. I will prepare the other bull and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. 24 Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the LORD. The god who answers by fire—he is God."
Then all the people said, "What you say is good."

25 Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, "Choose one of the bulls and prepare it first, since there are so many of you. Call on the name of your god, but do not light the fire." 26 So they took the bull given them and prepared it.
Then they called on the name of Baal from morning till noon. "O Baal, answer us!" they shouted. But there was no response; no one answered. And they danced around the altar they had made.

27 At noon Elijah began to taunt them. "Shout louder!" he said. "Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened." 28 So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. 29 Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention.

30 Then Elijah said to all the people, "Come here to me." They came to him, and he repaired the altar of the LORD, which was in ruins. 31 Elijah took twelve stones, one for each of the tribes descended from Jacob, to whom the word of the LORD had come, saying, "Your name shall be Israel." 32 With the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD, and he dug a trench around it large enough to hold two seahs [a] of seed. 33 He arranged the wood, cut the bull into pieces and laid it on the wood. Then he said to them, "Fill four large jars with water and pour it on the offering and on the wood."

34 "Do it again," he said, and they did it again.
"Do it a third time," he ordered, and they did it the third time. 35 The water ran down around the altar and even filled the trench.

36 At the time of sacrifice, the prophet Elijah stepped forward and prayed: "O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command. 37 Answer me, O LORD, answer me, so these people will know that you, O LORD, are God, and that you are turning their hearts back again."

38 Then the fire of the LORD fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench.

39 When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, "The LORD -he is God! The LORD -he is God!"

40 Then Elijah commanded them, "Seize the prophets of Baal. Don't let anyone get away!" They seized them, and Elijah had them brought down to the Kishon Valley and slaughtered there.

41 And Elijah said to Ahab, "Go, eat and drink, for there is the sound of a heavy rain." 42 So Ahab went off to eat and drink, but Elijah climbed to the top of Carmel, bent down to the ground and put his face between his knees.

43 "Go and look toward the sea," he told his servant. And he went up and looked.
"There is nothing there," he said.
Seven times Elijah said, "Go back."

44 The seventh time the servant reported, "A cloud as small as a man's hand is rising from the sea."
So Elijah said, "Go and tell Ahab, 'Hitch up your chariot and go down before the rain stops you.' "

45 Meanwhile, the sky grew black with clouds, the wind rose, a heavy rain came on and Ahab rode off to Jezreel. 46 The power of the LORD came upon Elijah and, tucking his cloak into his belt, he ran ahead of Ahab all the way to Jezreel.

What, and that doesn't? If god is real, he's a world-class jerk, and his followers are insane. (The hardcore ones, that is- not just any old Christian, Jew or Muslim these days.)

[Steppe Merc]

Actually a very small number of people still follow Ahura Mazda and the teachings of Zoroaster, maybe you should rethink changing your religion, at least one of those still exists.

I noticed that too, whenver I was researching Ahura Mazda I kept on getting actual sites of worshippers... it was wierd. I want to know about how he was worshiped in Persian and Parthian times, not today!

[GoreBag]

I noticed that too, whenver I was researching Ahura Mazda I kept on getting actual sites of worshippers... it was wierd. I want to know about how he was worshiped in Persian and Parthian times, not today!

Maybe such changes aren't that prevalent. I believe there are about 50 000 Persians who remains Zoroasrians to this day. My numbers may be wrong, of course.

[Kraxis]

No, that sounds likely. Another 30,000 reside in India, but they are fast thinning out as the young are moving to the cities and becoming atheists. Not enough remain to bring up their young as followers of Ahura Mazda.

[caesar44]

What, and that doesn't? If god is real, he's a world-class jerk, and his followers are insane. (The hardcore ones, that is- not just any old Christian, Jew or Muslim these days.)

That is the Bible...

[caesar44]

Edyz , about Esculapius and how he came to Rome -
"In the year 292 bce , a Roman embassy was send to Epidaurus to to invite
the-god Esculapius to Rome, in order that he might put a stop to
the plague which had then been raging for three years. The head
of the embassy was Q. Ogulnius .
The deputation arrived at Epidaurus, the peculiar seat of AEsculapius, and entreated permission to invite the god to Rome, and that they might be instructed how to offer him acceptable worship. This was no unusual request; for many cities had, in like manner, received his worship from Epidaurus; Sicyon , Athens,Pergamus, and Cyrene. Accordingly, one of the snakes which were sacred to
the god crawled from his temple to the city of Epidaurus, and from thence made its way to the sea-shore, and climbed up into the trireme of the Roman ambassadors, which was as usual drawn up on the beach. It was under the form of a snake that Esculapius was said to have gone to Sicyon , when his worship was introduced there; and the Romans, instructed by the Epidaurians, considered that he was now going to visit Rome in the same form, and they immediately sailed away with the sacred snake to Italy. But when they stopped at Antium, on
their way home, the snake, so said the story ,left the ship, and crawled out into the precinct of the temple of Esculapius, for the god it seems was worshipped at Antium also, and coiled himself round a tall palm-tree, where he remained for three days. The Romans anxiously waited for his return to the ship; and at last he went back, and did not move again till the ship entered the Tiber. Then when she came to Rome, he again crawled forth, but instead of landing with the ambassadors, he swam to the island in the middle of the Tiber, and there went on shore and remained quiet. A temple was built, therefore, to the god in the
spot which he had himself chosen; and the island to this day preserves the
memory of the story, for the travertino, which was brought there to form the
foundation of the temple of the god, has been cut into a rude resemblance of a trireme, because it was on ship-board that esculapius had first visited the Romans, and received their worship.
There is no reason to doubt that the Romans did bring back with them a
snake from Epidaurus, for there was a breed of snakes there ."

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Whoever said the Bible had to help convince people to follow Christianity? Personally I think it makes a very bad case for the religion.....

Anyway we should probably stay on topic and not run this thread off topic.

Anybody have any information on ancient Zoroastranism?

[edyzmedieval]

I'd be interested also...

[Gregoshi]

Why do people feel obligated to take cheap shots at the beliefs or opinions of other patrons (religious or not) and then add a lame disclaimer that somehow is supposed to make the insult okay? Is it a reflex reaction everytime certain subjects come up? Is it really so hard to show other patrons a little respect? Of course, you may have different beliefs, but if you really try, you can state those differences without insulting anyone. Or you can always opt to take the classic motherly advice and not say anything at all.

Let's go back on topic now.

[Sigurd]

I have some theories about this god Baal.
Reading entries in dictionaries et al, we begin to understand that the word Baal means many things and can refer to many gods. One of the suggestions is that it simply means “Lord” and that the early Israelites used this word to describe Yahweh.
In the Canaanite pantheon Baal was the god Hadad, meaning “the Lord”. He was the son of the God of gods; El.
Another god who was called Baal was the Tyrian god Melqart who Josephus claims was Baal.
Many prominent ancients had names signifying that they were blood relatives of gods as the cognates bel/bal found in Jezebel, Hasdrubal or Hannibal gives hints of.
If we take as a hypothetical starting point that all ancient religion have a common lost religion; let’s call it the religion of Adam to give us westerners a common picture in our minds. You will find a host of similarities in the break offs of this ancient, but lost, first religion.
One would be the hierarchy of gods, their purpose and story.
There is always an assembly of Gods, where a father god gives a problem that needs to be solved. A son figure steps forward or is chosen to be the executor of the plan that the gods gives as solution. He becomes the hero and the savior of man, because the problem is always with man.
This even applies with the Judaic religion and hence Christianity. This is true for the Sumerian, Egyptian, Babylonian et al religions.
Even the religion of Judaism and early Christianity conforms to this. An assembly gathers, a plan is devised, a devil revolts, a son is chosen as savior, and he is Yahweh the son of Eli (eloihim), the Lord or the Son. The similarities are quite striking to Baal the son of El. Baal, meaning the Lord, being a son of a father god. That Baal was interchangeable with Yahweh in the Palestine area signifies that they are the same.
At some point the religion of Baal became a break off from the true religion of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and became corrupted. Something that falls from truth and are shamed sometime in the history got the word baal associated with it. Examples would be Ish-bosheth to Esh-baal, Jerubbesheth to Jerubbaal, Mephibosheth to Merib-baal and particularly notable is Baal-zebub.

Feel free to scrutinize and find flaws in this theory.

[master of the puppets]

its a good thing your not worshiping Baal lest you have to sacrifice some babies
really all i know about him is he was the parton of lightning and of justice. law and justice were a big thing for his followers.

[Gurkhal]

Baal's main roll was as a powerful fertility god and a thunder god, he manage to defeat both the sea god Yam and the god of death, Mot.

Also note that to sacrifices children was, as far as I know not something of a daily practice, only when thing were really, really, really bad would the people do this as the ultimate sacrifice to turn things around.

Also the names which feathers bel or bal in them arn't any declaritions that they would be related to the gods, it's names with positive divine meaning, as Hannibal for example means Favour/loved of Baal, and Hamlikar means the same except that it's towards Melkart rather than Baal that one turns.

[GoreBag]

An excellent post.

This all seems quite plausible. I never made the connection between Baal and Be'elzebub.

[Kraxis]

Also note that to sacrifices children was, as far as I know not something of a daily practice, only when thing were really, really, really bad would the people do this as the ultimate sacrifice to turn things around.

And the Romans were horrified not because the sacrifices were made, they did practice human sacrifice now and then, but it was the fact that the sacrifices were the noble children, not just some poor dreg at the bottom of society. That went fully against the Roman system, making the Carthies abnormally different.

[Derfasciti]

Thanks for the info guys.

I want to know because of curiosity. Oh no, I haven't decided to change my religion, especially to some old gods that nobody knows about.

I want also to find out because I was always fascinated by religion. Baal always fascinated me.

Any more info on him?! How did the temples look, what were the rituals....

You and me both. I am a Christian but ancient religion is just interesting! Good luck with your quest for information!

[nokhor]

as far as i know, monotheism, the concept of a apocalyptic battle between good and evil with good eventually winning, the concept of an ultimate good and an ultimate evil struggling for eons over the souls of men, the concept of a constant struggle between civilization and barbarism all began with zoroaster.

[Sigurd]

as far as i know, monotheism, the concept of a apocalyptic battle between good and evil with good eventually winning, the concept of an ultimate good and an ultimate evil struggling for eons over the souls of men, the concept of a constant struggle between civilization and barbarism all began with zoroaster.

You have the problem of dating Zarathushtra.
The notion of apocalyptic struggle between good and evil can be found in various old texts. The Memphite trilogy has it which seemingly is considerable older than Zoroastrianism.
One thing that I find interesting is that they were fire worshippers. Why? You may ask.
Well, I am thinking of my ancestors’ Norse mythology.
According to the sagas, Óðinn and his family came from the Caucasian area; they were fire worshippers and sacrificed to one God.
Speculations have it that Óðinn and his 12 blotgoder (priests)sacrificed to Thor, which I find difficulties with. It is also interesting that early Caucasian (as in the area of Caucasus: Armenia, Azerbaijan, et al) beliefs give Thor and Elijah(the Hebrew prophet) identical attributes with a wagon of fire and lightning ascending or flying over the havens pulled by something looking like goats.
Some likenesses between Norse mythology and Zoroastrianism are evident. One example would be the magical bridge all dead people have to cross to get to “heaven”. The valiant and good will be able to cross while the evil will fall down into an abyss. This bridge is found in both religions.
Another aspect is the equality of women, important in both religions. It is obvious from the sagas that Óðinn and his retinue were monotheistic. It was the kings of North Europe that worshipped him and his retinue as gods and mixed their old pagan religion with the one that Óðinn brought with him from Aasgaard in the east.
Oh, did I mention that Óðinn was a fire worshipper? I believe I did… He could as well as something else have been a Zoroastrian.

[Steppe Merc]

Ahura Mazda evolved from the Iranian group of multiple gods. Zoarastor essentially said that Ahura Mazda was the one true god, sort of like the Arabs and Allah (I believe Allah was part of a group of dieties). The other gods got regulated to "angels".
Fire worship was pre Zoarastraism, and continued on with peoples like the Sarmatians. But you are correct, it was an Aryan thing.