Cataphracts vs Silver Shield Pikemen

**Puzz3D** · 09-30-2005, 22:50

This is the result of replaying a test done back in February in multiplayer of 4 cataphract units abreast (54 men each) frontally charging (using alt to switch to secondary weapon) 4 silver shield pikemen units (121 men each) in a battleline 8 men deep on flat ground. No upgrades were applied to the units.

With RTW v1.2 the cataphracts won killing 413 pikemen and loosing 97 catpahracts.
With RTW v1.3 the cataphracts lost killing 51 pikemen and loosing 170 cataphracts.

It's a dramatic difference to say the least, and I thank Jerome and Intrepid Sidekick for fixing this issue because I think it's important to the gameplay. In RTW v1.3, many cav now die upon contact with the pikes, and the pike units maintain higher morale since they didn't take heavy losses.

**A.Saturnus** · 09-30-2005, 23:15

Very good. Are their stats the same? I would like to know what precisely changed. Is it alone the charge that´s different now?

**Puzz3D** · 10-01-2005, 00:39

The charge stat is lowered, but the game mechanics of jumping and charge bonus were also changed.

RTW version, unit, charge/attack/defend = (armor factor + skill + shield)

RTW v1.2, cataphract, 15/7/23 = (18 + 5 + 0)
RTW v1.3, cataphract, 09/7/23 = (18 + 5 + 0)

RTW v1.2, silver shield pikemen, 7/10/14 = (6 + 6 + 2)
RTW v1.3, silver shield pikeman, 4/10/14 = (6 + 6 + 2)

**Kraxis** · 10-01-2005, 02:56

Not only that but included in the BI descr file you will find a new attribute for the spear called, now brace yourself, 'spear'. That means the unit will have increased resistance to charges to the front when it is cavalry.
The question is just if it applies to RTW as well, because the filechanges are not visible in the RTW version. But given these results I think so.

Jumping horses are still in (I falsely claimed otherwise), but it is extremely rare now, and I have yet to see it in a head on charge.

**edyzmedieval** · 10-01-2005, 11:27

Thanks for the test Puzz.

Finally they fixed the idiotic thing. I lost many battles with Macedon against Brutii, because Brutii had many Equites. They always charged on to my Hoplites and Levy Pikemen, and I always lost.

Once, I had 2 units of Levy Pikemen. 240 pikemen. Destroyed by 108 Equites. Lost about 100 Pikemen, and they lost about 40 Equites. Damn!

**Nelson** · 10-01-2005, 14:16

This is excellent news. I need to run out and get BI.

**Ciaran** · 10-01-2005, 14:31

Well, strictly speaking no, you´d just have to adjust the values in the export_unit file.
As for the "spear" attribute, that exists in plain Rome as well, just whether the Silver Shield pikes have one I don´t know.

**Kraxis** · 10-01-2005, 16:32

Originally Posted by Ciaran

Well, strictly speaking no, you´d just have to adjust the values in the export_unit file.
As for the "spear" attribute, that exists in plain Rome as well, just whether the Silver Shield pikes have one I don´t know.

Yeah... It is there, it is just not mentioned in the explaination. Rejoice all yee complainers.

**econ21** · 10-01-2005, 18:02

Originally Posted by Ciaran

Well, strictly speaking no, you´d just have to adjust the values in the export_unit file.

It sounded from the answer to Saturnus's question that the relevant values have not been adjusted - the changes are hard coded and so you do need BI (or the putative patch).

**The Stranger** · 10-01-2005, 18:49

wehjoo...is there a 1.3 patch

...where can i get it...it might make me reinstal RTW

**Kraxis** · 10-01-2005, 19:38

Originally Posted by The Stranger

wehjoo...is there a 1.3 patch

...where can i get it...it might make me reinstal RTW

Not out just yet... Could be that CA is looking at fixing a few BI issues as well, or they simply want people to buy BI when they hear how much better the game is. Yup, the business can be cynical.