Feedback on BI

[Puzz3D]

I haven't seen any posts that say the battles are desyncing. I have seen a couple of posts where people said their BI replay did not play the same as the original battle. I haven't seen anything about RTW playback being incorrect. An incorrect playback can be caused by a particular unit type. Since there are no new units types in RTW, I would expect those replays to be ok.

I saw some posts where players said they had severe lag in night battles, but other players posted that they had no lag in night battles. It would seem that severe lag is computer specific.

[Loinnreach]

Good points, yes. Yuuki you are right about time and how people spend it as well about some other issues.

'limiting geometrically' issues in RTW/BI. It is true in 1v1 matches. Team matches are more nearer to MTW/VI gameplay.

You are right as well about other issues as well I don't deny Alexandros issues he pointed out as well. I'm not as much 'in' TW mechanics as you are or AMP, Kocmoc, Bottom and few others were/are, but I know if something is good or not.

BI for example has a lot more army variations then MTW/VI has for example. There as well are few other good point, but yes let us mention all.


AquaLurker you have asked about desync and other bugs. There are few bugs, but you hardly notice them. Desync is not present in battles, but only in replays. Lag is still an issues and depends from time to time.
Now host a game it seems even more reliable then in MTW/IV for example. (at least that are my experiences)

Is it as it is, but despite that I 'like' BI as much as I enjoy MTW/VI. (didn't liked RTW, so there will be no confusion)

As Yuuki mentioned

is worth investing the time and effort required to play it. Once you get away from Total War multiplayer, you realized how many other things you gave up doing in order to play Total War online.

People have different hobbies and issues in life. Difference in all kind of aspects.
It depends on each person how he decides. It is clear to me that those who get in touch with STW gameplay, didn't like what MTW was later on and many left thought and so on, until VI was out. I would mention that is same with MTW/VI related with RTW and BI expansion, just less interest.

It is more the fact that when RTW has showed somehting what people have not expected and becaus of that uninterest of spending more time in TW serie, they have somehow found other things in life they have put aside becaus of TW. (STW and VI in mind particulary)

Many won't like BI becaus they want STW or VI gameplay for example. Different 'style' of gameplay. Some people don't get used to different style or don't want to and other can or are willing to.

I can effectively play MTW/VI and BI. I simply adopt gamestyle to each of series. BI as well allow much better strategy gameplay then you have know befor in RTW. I even belive that strategy aspect of BI is better then it is in VI. Better unit choise, more variations, more intense gameplay, etc. (my opinion, or as you would mention 'my 2 cents')

There are some players who belive that berseker units are too strong and they don't like them in game. They are quit right, but even this units are able to be beaten. I only have one rule and this is no artillery and it is a relief after all those countless rules from RTW.
This one simple rule gives enough flexibility and you are able to play interesting team matches without being affraid of spam armies. (well at least for now I don't know for any 'effective spam'; we will see what time will bring)
*matches are usually played on 12,5k*

Then on other side you have lag in team games sometimes, few bugs (I have not have any manouvering bug problems yet), replay desync. It is simply on each one how he will decide as mentioned befor. For example many STW and MTW players belive that movement controls are better in those series.

Then those you have played with for so long. Will they like BI for example? How is lobby atmosphere, etc. Factors which decide.

I belive that BI has better movement controls, more simplified and you can be more focused on gameplay. On the otherside this controls might as well permit a bit more faster gameplay which would not be possible with MTW control for example. (mentioned hypotheticaly)

Afterall an individual will make his/her own desicion for which he/she will belive is best to do.

[Ayra]

While I certainly won't be as wise as Loinnreach in my post, I'll add my two cents anyway :)

I only bought BI recently, so I can't form a complete opinion on it yet. I played nearly only multiplayer, but I had a great time. I played about 8 matches, but not a single one crashed. None had any issue in it, excluding an horrible, horrible replay desync. Oh, and the night battle was slightly laggy, but nothing worse than that. Too bad, I loved the replays...

The unit selection is varied as had been mentionned, and while I did see 2 "spam" armies (One cataphrac and one huns horse archers), neither were very effective and were easily beaten (Sarmatian virgin cavalry > horse archer).I mainly played 2v2 as usual, but I haven't met a single rude person. In most games my ally and I actually worked together and supported each other: Most of my enemies did the same.

I'm glad that I'm able to have more diversity as playing as the Sarmatians also then as the Scythian before. And yay, more female units. I faced berzerkers, horse archers, roman infantry... Nothing came across as a cheap unit composition. Some horrible yes, but nothing "cheap".

For one, I love the multiplayer in BI, but I can't garantee it will be the same for you :)

[Jochi Khan]

I have seen a couple of posts where people said their BI replay did not play the same as the original battle. .

This is probably due to a player 'exiting' the game rather than using the 'admit defeat' option. I have encountered this happening on all replays where one or more of the players have exited the game before its conclusion.
It does not happen if the game is played to the end.

The common trend with a lot of the players today seems to be 'I've had enough lets get out of here'.

Jochi

[Jochi Khan]

My quarrel with BI , just as it was with rtw is i feel new and unexperienced players have far too good a chance to win with using an unbalanced "spam" armies and tactics so simple they're almost non-existant!.

Just yesterday i fought a chap (whos first game i assume it was) who took 10cilibans (very heavy cav) put them all in one big wedge and rolled over my entire army. An army i might add which was made of balanced portions of missle, infantry an cavalry units.

Sadly, this is still the case.
Until your on the battlefield you are not aware of the opponents selection and then its too late.

Jochi

[Puzz3D]

Sadly, this is still the case.
Until your on the battlefield you are not aware of the opponents selection and then its too late.

Most players will try to find an army which gives them an advantage, and that means you are going to see a lot of unbalanced armies. The game is supposedly designed so there are counterarmies to every army. It's not designed so that a perfectly balanced army beats all unbalanced armies. So, a certain amount of guesswork is involved when purchasing an army which you hope tilts the advantage back in your favor. If you play the same people more than once, you get better at anticipating what kind of army they'll buy. There is another whole level of strategy involved between players who have played each other many times. If you become too predictable it's a disadvange.

Of course for it to work like that, every army has to have a counterarmy. I would say the 10 heavy cav wedge has to be stoppable by a 5 phalanx block or else you aren't going to have a diverse game because a cav unit can run around a phalanx unit faster than the phalanx can turn to face the cav. You have to be able to field 2 superior phalanx units for each heavy cav that you face at a combined cost which is not more than the cost of each heavy cav unit. That's the minimum requirement, and commits you to 20 phalanx units when facing 10 heavy cav. It goes without saying that you can't play at a money level that allows the purchase of more than 10 heavy cav. That would seem to be about 10k since a cataphract costs 940 denari.

[Orda Khan]

I even belive that strategy aspect of BI is better then it is in VI. Better unit choise, more variations, more intense gameplay, etc. (my opinion, or as you would mention 'my 2 cents')

A very interesting analysis by Loinnreach, particularly the quote above, which I have to say I very much agree with. There are indeed many more varied units and armies that can lead to much more intense, enjoyable battles. BI, in team battles particularly, has introduced an element that was lacking in VI and the outcome of the final stage of battle, though governed in some ways by the previous stages, is less dependant upon them. whether the same can be said for 1v1 I do not know and perhaps this is not the case. The speed issues that were condemned in RTW no longer present a problem and with melee lasting considerably longer, it is not unusual for a battle to last as long as an hour. Hopefully the Replay Desync problem will be addressed and 'Epic' struggles will then be saved correctly. That and the Lobby PM chat, which appears to be broken if you wish to select more than one person in conversation

......Orda

[Jochi Khan]

It does not happen if the game is played to the end.

I now have to correct this statement.
After a battle where every player remained until the conclusion, the replay turned out to be Desynced.
This is something that will have to be corrected by CA, if there are going to be Tournaments (CWC....CWB....etc)

Jochi

[Tomisama]

Tired of hosting with the same old maps?

The God's Map Pack works with BI also

http://www.clanwarscomp.org/tools/Gods MapPack.exe

Desync (connection) is very definitely player specific.

Wish there was some way to prequalify folks for larger games.

This single issue is the Achilles Heel of all Total War gamming.

There must be a way to solve this

[cromwell]

I just played a 2v2. 2 minutes after the game had ended, I watched the replay and it wasn't the same. We did have one player with connection/lag issues but nothing terrible, the game was fine and we finished the game.

So the replays are off.

Just some feedback for the Devs.

I'm loving BI though, havn't had this much fun in awhile!!!


Later all

Cromwell

[Tomisama]

If I remember right we had the same over sensitive connection problems, and replay problems, with the first release of RTW?

And what happened to ‘t & y’ direct chat? Or is there something I am not doing to make that happen?

This is almost like patch 1.1 never happened. Or is it true that memory is the first thing to go

[cromwell]

To get the quick Chat, look for the preferences file in BI. There you have to change quick chat from FALSE to TRUE. I also changed it to MIN GUI, for MP it looks alot better. I also changed the resolution to match my LCD. Oh's there's alot to modify in there to make the game more enjoyable.

One thing after playing CS online for so long, I miss/wish that TW had voice chat included for online play. I know you can run Teamspeak ...etc, but it's nice to just load up your game and have it all.


Later,

Cromwell

[Jochi Khan]

Desync (connection) is very definitely player specific.

Wish there was some way to prequalify folks for larger games.

This single issue is the Achilles Heel of all Total War gamming.

There must be a way to solve this

I dont think it is player specific. Why could I host countless games with no probs before but now in BI although many are ok, you do get games that the replay is desynced? If it was player specific, surely ALL games would desync or run ok.

Jochi

[Tomisama]

Thanks Cromwell

I dont think it is player specific. Why could I host countless games with no probs before but now in BI although many are ok, you do get games that the replay is desynced? If it was player specific, surely ALL games would desync or run ok.

I think we may be talking apples, oranges and maybe lemons here Jochi

RTW v1.0 had a connection desync problem, and replay problems.

The v1.1 patch fixed the problems.

So if you were playing v1.1 or 1.2, everything would be “normal”

For some reason with BI it seems we have the same problems back (not really sure if same, just looks that way).

So if you are playing BI, you will see problems more than “normal”.


Now the problem it’s self seems to be an over sensitivity to synchronization errors.

It seems that some peoples connection (or computer, or both) cause the problem more than others. And it is the same people (player specific) who are causing the problem every time.

You might be able to play with them 1v1, but when they join a 4v4 the game lags and they drop.

They might have been able to play in RTW 4v4s, but in BI they are not cutting it.

This needs to be fixed before we can have any 4v4 competitions with BI, the same as it had to be fixed before when Rome first came out.

Now the replay issue may be a direct result of the sync problem. It would make sense anyway that if the original game was unstable, that the replay would be also.

So far I have not had any bad replays, but at the same time have never saved a game with sync problems, and will have to look into it.

[AquaLurker]

What would you people recomand for a smooth multiplayer action for BI.
We seems to have more crazy lags in BI than we have in RTW.
I only played some games which rather smooth actions so far and about 80% of the games I played range from tolerable lag to mad lag.

[Tomisama]

What would you people recomand for a smooth multiplayer action for BI.
We seems to have more crazy lags in BI than we have in RTW.
I only played some games which rather smooth actions so far and about 80% of the games I played range from tolerable lag to mad lag.

1. Read the post above yours.

2. Pray for a version 1.5 patch, we need this fixed as soon as possible. I hope they don’t wait too long again, we loose people…

3. For now, find people playing with cable or high end DSL, who are not sharing their connection through a router with another active computer.

You can check your own connection, and learn more about the “very broad” interpretation of “broadband” (required by the game) at :
http://www.bandwidthplace.com/speedtest/