Goths (BI faction)

[frogbeastegg]

Guide.

[Sir William Wallace]

Ok, the Goths are pretty tricky to play. First you start off with low public order, a blue face appears. You need to build a religious building your first turn to get it up to green. You also start off with no defences so I suggest building a fence/wall within your first turn. This will come in handy very soon, as the Vandals and/or Huns will come and invade your primary settlement within the first 10-12 turns in my experience so far. However, if the Vandals and/or Huns invade the Sarmatians first, you will have a few extra turns to build up your defences and your army. This will also bring the Samartians in as a roaming horde headed at your settlement. (I am not at home right now so once i get home i will make this much more detailed). Secondly on your first turn, I suggest taking over the settlement directly to the left of your starting settlement. This will allow you to concentrate on building money making buildings once you have built some basic defenses on it (you will need it them to give yourself a fighting chance and a sanctuary to retreat to once the hordes come). Once you have gotten the queues filled, send out your diplomat, trying to make alliances first then trade rights right after with them. I have found you can get 4-5 alliances/trade rights fairly quickly within the first 5-6 turns. Also within the first 10 turns you should have a son or 2 come of age and a marriage celebration, leaving you with 4 or 5 generals to start off with and combat the hordes. When building up your stockpile of units, go for the units that will give you numbers,(ie) peasants, spearmen) by the time the first wave of hordes come you will be severly outnumbered. You can build a blacksmith and retrain everyone so the peasants won't be entirely useless. I will be adding more tonight when i can get into some more detail for you guys.

[Sir William Wallace]

does anyone mind if i add more? im not sure if it is ok to post like that in here? i apologize if i wasn't supposed to. I'm just really interested in succeeding with the Goths.

[Theodoret]

I certainly don't mind. My Goths got pulverised after a few years (damn Huns) so I'm all ears.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Edit: Oops double post, but it didn't appear at first... Sorry. I'm keeping the parts of this post that wasn't included in the below post, editing out the rest...

Some recommendations on troops: goth spearmen are very powerful! They're better than any roman, vandal or hun spearmen. Against roman heavy infantry they need a supporting cavalry charge to do well, but they hold their own for very long even without it. The raiders are VERY vulnerable to missiles, so if fighting enemy archery or missile cav, consider putting them behind the infantry when the enemy archery comes closer. But if their numbers are sufficient (3 units or more), they do quite well. The general's bodyguards will be key troops early in the campaign, to support the goth spearmen in their pinning actions. Hiring a few mercenary horse archers is also a good idea - 3 units of alan horse archers proved very effective in my fighting against the ERE - the early ERE seems to lack horse archers, and sometimes even archers at all. Mercenary bucellari are also interesting to consider. They're not much good in battles, but they have a sapping ability and are the cheapest mercenary units available that can sap.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Looks like my very, very long post here just disappeared... I'm too lazy to rewrite all that, so here's a shorter version:
1. conquer Campus Iazyges on first turn. Don't invest too much in it, as you're going to give it up soon. Only build level 1 walls and perhaps a trader. It's supposed to be a money maker for you for a little while
2. try to get many alliances early. Most will probably be broken. Also try to ally yourself with one of the hordes if possible. That may delay them. I allied to the vandals, and it had that effect, but they eventually backstabbed me of course.
3. attack the ERE as quickly as possible. Use at least 4 goth spearmen, 3 raiders, some mercenary (alan) horse archers, some general's units and a unit of mercenary bucellari. The latter is hired merely for it's sapping ability, makes assaults easier. Your first target is the city of Sirmium, then move on to Constantinople. Exterminate both cities, or low loyalty might lead to the appearance of the ostrogoths. Their appearance can sometimes be good for you, as they'll, once you retake Sirmium that they appeared in, move west and weaken the WRE, but not making them appear at all is IMO a wiser thing to do. If you conquered Constantinople and Sirmium quickly enough, you should be ready before the hordes arrive at your starting cities. You can then even train a good defensive garrison in Constantinople and Sirmium and then conquer Thessalonica and then move the main army back north to deal with the hordes, and in the meantime have trained a nearly full army (if you use mercenaries too) in your starting city. Now you only have to choose between two strategies:
a. split up your army in Provincia Dacia between that city and Campus Iazyges, and make the huns and/or vandals assault, then do as much damage as possible to them during the siege defenses, but be prepared to give up the settlements.
b. give up one of the cities by putting peasants only and no good troops in it (preferably Campus Iazyges), and have your full or nearly full army in your capital, and try to manage to completely repel the assaults of the horde/hordes, if they'd attack there. The hordes may ignore the city instead, and instead capture Campus Iazyges, so it's not a safe thing to do if you don't want to lose Campus Iazyges.
c. combine a or b with sending your main army from the south, perhaps reinforced by troops from the Sirmium garrison, to relive any sieges made by the hordes. But this is risky, as you may lose this important main army in such a fight. I recommend using a or b, then letting the hordes exhaust themselves in the assault/assaults, and move in the main army from the south to strike only if the hordes are weakened enough by the assaults.
d. don't care about the north, and continue conquering in Greece. The hordes will bother your capital and Campus Iazyges, but most likely continue westwards and fight the WRE and others, and thus help you in a way. But it's hard to predict exactly what they'll do, so this method can result in a risk losing Sirmium. Constantinople they'll probably not succeed in taking, and if they assault Sirmium they'll take huge casualties, so it's not a strategy that'll lead to a risk losing the entire campaign.
4. once you've dealt with the hordes or have let them pass, you can go on the offensive. If you're short of money, exterminate some cities, but it's probably not necessary at this stage to do so with more than perhaps 1 or 2 cities. Your economy should be so steady that you can train all the armies you want, so the rest should be easy, especially if you weakened the hordes. Remember to keep armies to defend your homelands while going on the offensive, and you should be fine.
5. the following campaign could be played in a number of different ways. There are several things to consider
a. Sarmatians - attacking their city would wipe them out as a possible future threat, but make them a horde that'll probably try to settle in your other home provinces. Not attacking them could make them a huge threat in the future.
b. ERE - should you cross the Bosphorus and hunt down the last of them? I suggest not, it would only result in getting a border to the sassanids or other difficult opponents. Instead the ERE should be made an ally or protectorate if possible. If they aren't dealt with, however, it's necessary to maintain armies in the Constantinople area and so on to defend against counter-attacks. I'd suggest punitive expeditions and then making them a protectorate. They're a good buffer zone. Perhaps one province east of the Bosphorus could be a good base to have.
c. the WRE - it's necessary to attack them because you need Rome. They'll have plenty of trouble from all their wars, so they should be easy to strike, and methodically conquering their settlements one by one should be possible. The problem might perhaps be if they're so weakened that the other barbarians are strengthened and end up threatening you. I suggest conquering mainly the eastern parts of the WRE, and not touching the rest of their empire. In order to get the needed 16 provinces, you can go into the Switzerland area late in the campaign if needed.

[Dubius Cato]

My strategy as Goths is quite different, although it has its own complications. Because I cannot build ports as Goths (?) I started a great trek east, then went south into Armenia, through the Sassanid lands, through the Arabian desert and into Egypt, and finally to Carthage and into the Berber lands. I decided to forge an Empire in Africa, with carthage as its centre city. On the way, I avoided conflict until I entered Egypt and sacked Alexandria. AI avoids war with a four stack horde too, and they didn't dare to attack me on the way. It was quite eerie to see the ERE "escorting" me with full stacks through their southern lands (it was like they knew what I was up too ;) ), but I managed to block them at a bridge and forced them to take a southern ford over the Nile. At that time, I struck Alexandria.

After that, I settled in carthage and attacked the Berbers. During all the time I spent trekking around, the Franks managed to conquer a sizable Empire and already have Rome.

My strategy was: Conquering the Berber cities while at the same time going searaiding undefended cities from east and west empires. With that money, I take on the ERE in Egypt and maybe the holy land/Levant area. The Islands are a target too, as is Iberia. When I had enough provinces, I wanted to go for Rome and Constantinople at the same time and win!

Now I think I will try to attack Italy first, to keep the Franks from winning.

As BI seems to have a completely different balancing than RTR (what I played before) even the Berbers seem to be a challenge now as a Goth horde. I suffered a sizable defeat against them, and lost many horde units and all of my precious foot archers. In the end, I won with a second stack through sheer numbers.

I have the impression that christianity is a must for the goths, as they are short on happiness/health buildings. Which is a pity, as I wanted to go for human sacrifices one more ... maybe I mod the health buildings in.

[JagLover]

I found the experience of playing the Goths as trying to stand in the middle of a busy road. You tend to get squashed. You get the Samartians, Vandals and Huns all passing through in quick succession.

The strategy that worked for me is to horde immediatedly and then take the nearest Eastern Empire city and use that as a base. Playing at the hardest level of difficulty this allowed me to conquer all of Eastern Europe.

They have very good units for the early game. Good spearmen, archers, light cavalry. They are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Mangudai]

In my view the most fun way to play is as a horde. You can re-horde in midgame and be stronger than ever before! Horde size depends mostly on the population of the city you horde from. So settling your first horde, then raising a second one in Rome really rocks!

It seems enemy hordes do not usually attack each other unless one of them blocks the path of the other. I have recrossed the map multiple times, and come close to the Vandals and Huns many times without a fight. It helps to have a diplomat nearby to ask for a ceasefire, but this is not always necessary. It also helps to save often because sometimes you may block them and provoke a fight, but if you stop one space to the left they leave you alone. Also I never maintain mercenaries with my horde. With zero mercs there is zero expense, and all the time in the world to maneuver.

If you kick the nests of the lombards, burgundians, and franks you can force them to become hordes. They always seem to accept a ceasefire the first turn they become a horde. There is little danger of squandering your horde by attacking them. Once loose, they will turn WRE into anarchy.

As the Goths I find it best to spend about 9 turns milking the homeland, then horde. Like many others i take tribus lazygens and build some forts. I recommend enslaving this population because a bigger pop in dacia will give you a bigger horde.

I build blacksmith 1 and 2 in dacia, and recruit 9 raiders there. In tribus lazygens i build a stable and 5 lancers. when the lvl2 blacksmith is finished i retrain all my forces including family members. At this point I'm bankrupt and it's time to horde.

This early in the game Greece is poorly defended, I sack it forthwith, but do not settle down. Then I move west sacking along the way. I think I hit the lombards on the way as well. I settle in Rome and two other Italian cities. I spend all my cash on military units. Let the other two italian cities revolt, then horde up from Rome. At this point I have 9 full stacks. 7 stacks are horde troops, 2 stacks worth are tricked out hard core regulars.

I've tried settling one city, disbanding just 1/3 of my horde then hording back up. This seems to always result in a slightly smaller horde. There can be an advantage in doing this. First you can give the other 2/3 blacksmith upgrades. Second, you can convert slave spearmen into more useful troops. Have the army that takes the city be all slave spearmen, and place the rest of your slave spearmen close by on the map. Have valuable horde troops be far away. The 1/3 that disbands will be almost all slaves. Keep the city at least one turn, then horde up again. I found that disbanding about 16 units, I got back about 10.

At midgame Europe is complete anarchy. It will take a long time to see who prevails. The Saxons and the Franks are early favorites to form the first big empires. So I go sack Denmark and stir up the Burgundians. If the Allemani are still alive I let them alone as well. Chaos is served by leaving as many competitors as possible. I really can't decide if it is worthwhile to attack the Franks or not. Either way they are liable to form a major empire in Gaul.

With Greece wounded early, the ERE will inevitably succumb to the Sassanid empire. There is only one faction in BI that is predictable, the Sassanids. Therefore it is vital to nip their plans for world order in the bud. I hike to the far eastern extreme of the map, then south. This is a long hike but it takes little time, as there are few battles and turns are not complicated. The Roixolani may be trying to invade along the eastern shore of the black sea. I go around them. Sassanids main forces are concentrated on the ERE in the west. I sack all the poorly defended Sassanid cities I can find. Then finally find a homeland.

My choice of homeland is Antioch, Jerusalem, and Alexandria. These give great cash flow! And they are built higher on the tech tree than the Goths can ever match. If the ERE is still near Antioch, its better to find an alternative. Because it sucks to be between ERE and the Sassanids! The Sassanids and ERE will never stop fighting each other unless you get between them. Benefit from their mutual attrition.

I've used this strategy with several horde factions.
Goths have good anti-clibinari units compared to most factions. By the endgame several factions bit the dust, i know not how or where. Somebody in the west is ending the chaos and forming a large empire. I've often seen the saxons or the franks become powerful in the west. Any of the horde factions might have taken up residence in greece or italy, but they are menaced by all the remaining factions so not a great threat. I've seen the Vandals secure in Spain and expanding out. Once I've seen the Roixilani become masters of most of Germany and Russia. I've seen the lombards rule Italy (but not for long). I've seen the Slavs and the Ostrogoths emerge as major empires, or sometimes they die with a whimper.

Playing a globe trotting horde is a great way to play! Every game is different. The late game map bears no resemblance whatsoever to the starting map, and there is no telling who will be where and how strong.

[TKaz84]

Is it really necessary to horde at the beginning? I always hate giving up dacia, simply because there is so much arable land there (seriously, build some farms and watch the entire province sprout fields. It is an incredibly rich province, and the capital, so giving it up seems a waste unless ABSOLUTELY necessary.

[rvg]

Is it really necessary to horde at the beginning? I always hate giving up dacia, simply because there is so much arable land there (seriously, build some farms and watch the entire province sprout fields. It is an incredibly rich province, and the capital, so giving it up seems a waste unless ABSOLUTELY necessary.

All depends on whether or not you can withstand the (almost inevitable)Hunnic/(frequent)Vandal/(sometimes)Sarmatian assaults on Dacia. If you can beat them, you'll be fine where you are. Otherwise it makes sense to pack up and leave.

[Ozzman1O1]

dont forget those blasted Roxalanis!

[Renco]

My strategy centres rather heavily around my style of play. Start with building economic buildings and build enough of a garrison for two towns. Then, when the hordes come, abandon starting settelment. Become a horde of your own. Get all your horse archers into one group, with about 6 left over to merge when you sustain casualites. Then just pick off the vandals one by one. You can take down 2 horde armies with one horse archer army on H/H at a stretch and come out with a 7% casualty rate on your side.

On my own campaign, I beat the Vandals using this method. I didn't want to settle yet though, as the Hun were still rolling around at full strength. They were currently sieging the Sarmatia town to Goth's right. So I allied with Sarmatia (for a hefty sum :D) and just stood my HA army on the bridge. Huns re-seiged, I sided with Sarmatia and went to war with the Huns. They sent roughly two half armies at a time at me on the bridge. So I would slay 10 units with arrows, then the reinforcements would get there and I would kill another 8 and run down the rest with a proud general. After a crushing defeat, that same turn the Huns would send another set of the same. With new arrows my men put them to shame. The Huns lost 80% of their military strength that turn. I lost a total of 500 men out of 1700.

The above strat has worked twice for me. Once it failed though. Still, it is highly recommended, as after defeating the immediate hordes the world is a ripe plum on a Roman platter for the Goths.

[RobInconformista]

Is it really necessary to horde at the beginning? I always hate giving up dacia, simply because there is so much arable land there (seriously, build some farms and watch the entire province sprout fields. It is an incredibly rich province, and the capital, so giving it up seems a waste unless ABSOLUTELY necessary.

People have succeeded fighting off the hordes, but the Goths don't want the WRE & ORE to consolidate, so hording and joining the mayhem is probably more fun for most, rather than trying to defend against the Huns or Vandals.

Looking at the faction, trying to retain the settlement and build economically, I converted to Paganism (so the heir meets the leader, takes the income boosting retinue, the church is demolished, the pagan spy remains in province, the christian diplo crosses the borders and a shrine to Agni built, soon few christians remain so unrest plummets). The rebel settlement is captured and the faction leader then takes merc horse archers off on a tour building watch towers etc, staying in the 100% pagan province, whilst spies give early horde warning.
The Christian diplo, goes off to get trade rights and map info swap with the ERE, then to Aquincum to get tradewith WRE, they wanted to sell me for an exhorbitant amount map info, so that was declined.
Now I've seen the Vandals transgress but decide to follow the road westwards, whilst the Huns follow them to my north, but may try and sack the Sarmatian's capital.
I almost had the finance sorted, but once I'd got 2nd level Grove of Agni up, I've prepared defences against a Hun arrival. From forum posts, it's possible to defend but difficult, I am using the rebel province as source of population by shipping peasants, so I can choose to abandon it, with plan of hording with a larger population later on. The captial is over 12,000 and new gov buildings gone in, to try to raise population yet further so I have a choice of hording or mopping up post-horde rebel settlements.
It's a bit strange, not doing much, I'd likely be more comfy as one of the Roman Empires with more to do, or doing the horde route.
There's announcements about the ERE & Sarmatians fighting, but I have no idea how they got involved as I appear to be a buffer state. Also unfortunately on first mission, spying a Hun stack, my pagan spy was killed failing, reducing opportunity to cause unrest in the civilised christian south to help prepare Romans for their new Gothic Architecture ;)