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Thread: Goths (BI faction)

  1. #1

    Default Goths (BI faction)

    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.

  2. #2
    Guardian of Scotland Member Sir William Wallace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    Ok, the Goths are pretty tricky to play. First you start off with low public order, a blue face appears. You need to build a religious building your first turn to get it up to green. You also start off with no defences so I suggest building a fence/wall within your first turn. This will come in handy very soon, as the Vandals and/or Huns will come and invade your primary settlement within the first 10-12 turns in my experience so far. However, if the Vandals and/or Huns invade the Sarmatians first, you will have a few extra turns to build up your defences and your army. This will also bring the Samartians in as a roaming horde headed at your settlement. (I am not at home right now so once i get home i will make this much more detailed). Secondly on your first turn, I suggest taking over the settlement directly to the left of your starting settlement. This will allow you to concentrate on building money making buildings once you have built some basic defenses on it (you will need it them to give yourself a fighting chance and a sanctuary to retreat to once the hordes come). Once you have gotten the queues filled, send out your diplomat, trying to make alliances first then trade rights right after with them. I have found you can get 4-5 alliances/trade rights fairly quickly within the first 5-6 turns. Also within the first 10 turns you should have a son or 2 come of age and a marriage celebration, leaving you with 4 or 5 generals to start off with and combat the hordes. When building up your stockpile of units, go for the units that will give you numbers,(ie) peasants, spearmen) by the time the first wave of hordes come you will be severly outnumbered. You can build a blacksmith and retrain everyone so the peasants won't be entirely useless. I will be adding more tonight when i can get into some more detail for you guys.
    Formerly Maximus Aurelius

  3. #3
    Guardian of Scotland Member Sir William Wallace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    does anyone mind if i add more? im not sure if it is ok to post like that in here? i apologize if i wasn't supposed to. I'm just really interested in succeeding with the Goths.
    Formerly Maximus Aurelius

  4. #4
    Member Member Theodoret's Avatar
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    Jan 2003
    Palace of the Porphyrogenitus, Constantinople

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    I certainly don't mind. My Goths got pulverised after a few years (damn Huns) so I'm all ears.

  5. #5
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Mar 2005
    The dark side

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    Edit: Oops double post, but it didn't appear at first... Sorry. I'm keeping the parts of this post that wasn't included in the below post, editing out the rest...

    Some recommendations on troops: goth spearmen are very powerful! They're better than any roman, vandal or hun spearmen. Against roman heavy infantry they need a supporting cavalry charge to do well, but they hold their own for very long even without it. The raiders are VERY vulnerable to missiles, so if fighting enemy archery or missile cav, consider putting them behind the infantry when the enemy archery comes closer. But if their numbers are sufficient (3 units or more), they do quite well. The general's bodyguards will be key troops early in the campaign, to support the goth spearmen in their pinning actions. Hiring a few mercenary horse archers is also a good idea - 3 units of alan horse archers proved very effective in my fighting against the ERE - the early ERE seems to lack horse archers, and sometimes even archers at all. Mercenary bucellari are also interesting to consider. They're not much good in battles, but they have a sapping ability and are the cheapest mercenary units available that can sap.
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 10-06-2005 at 19:02.
    Under construction...

    "In countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Norway, there is no separation of church and state." - HoreTore

  6. #6
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Mar 2005
    The dark side

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    Looks like my very, very long post here just disappeared... I'm too lazy to rewrite all that, so here's a shorter version:
    1. conquer Campus Iazyges on first turn. Don't invest too much in it, as you're going to give it up soon. Only build level 1 walls and perhaps a trader. It's supposed to be a money maker for you for a little while
    2. try to get many alliances early. Most will probably be broken. Also try to ally yourself with one of the hordes if possible. That may delay them. I allied to the vandals, and it had that effect, but they eventually backstabbed me of course.
    3. attack the ERE as quickly as possible. Use at least 4 goth spearmen, 3 raiders, some mercenary (alan) horse archers, some general's units and a unit of mercenary bucellari. The latter is hired merely for it's sapping ability, makes assaults easier. Your first target is the city of Sirmium, then move on to Constantinople. Exterminate both cities, or low loyalty might lead to the appearance of the ostrogoths. Their appearance can sometimes be good for you, as they'll, once you retake Sirmium that they appeared in, move west and weaken the WRE, but not making them appear at all is IMO a wiser thing to do. If you conquered Constantinople and Sirmium quickly enough, you should be ready before the hordes arrive at your starting cities. You can then even train a good defensive garrison in Constantinople and Sirmium and then conquer Thessalonica and then move the main army back north to deal with the hordes, and in the meantime have trained a nearly full army (if you use mercenaries too) in your starting city. Now you only have to choose between two strategies:
    a. split up your army in Provincia Dacia between that city and Campus Iazyges, and make the huns and/or vandals assault, then do as much damage as possible to them during the siege defenses, but be prepared to give up the settlements.
    b. give up one of the cities by putting peasants only and no good troops in it (preferably Campus Iazyges), and have your full or nearly full army in your capital, and try to manage to completely repel the assaults of the horde/hordes, if they'd attack there. The hordes may ignore the city instead, and instead capture Campus Iazyges, so it's not a safe thing to do if you don't want to lose Campus Iazyges.
    c. combine a or b with sending your main army from the south, perhaps reinforced by troops from the Sirmium garrison, to relive any sieges made by the hordes. But this is risky, as you may lose this important main army in such a fight. I recommend using a or b, then letting the hordes exhaust themselves in the assault/assaults, and move in the main army from the south to strike only if the hordes are weakened enough by the assaults.
    d. don't care about the north, and continue conquering in Greece. The hordes will bother your capital and Campus Iazyges, but most likely continue westwards and fight the WRE and others, and thus help you in a way. But it's hard to predict exactly what they'll do, so this method can result in a risk losing Sirmium. Constantinople they'll probably not succeed in taking, and if they assault Sirmium they'll take huge casualties, so it's not a strategy that'll lead to a risk losing the entire campaign.
    4. once you've dealt with the hordes or have let them pass, you can go on the offensive. If you're short of money, exterminate some cities, but it's probably not necessary at this stage to do so with more than perhaps 1 or 2 cities. Your economy should be so steady that you can train all the armies you want, so the rest should be easy, especially if you weakened the hordes. Remember to keep armies to defend your homelands while going on the offensive, and you should be fine.
    5. the following campaign could be played in a number of different ways. There are several things to consider
    a. Sarmatians - attacking their city would wipe them out as a possible future threat, but make them a horde that'll probably try to settle in your other home provinces. Not attacking them could make them a huge threat in the future.
    b. ERE - should you cross the Bosphorus and hunt down the last of them? I suggest not, it would only result in getting a border to the sassanids or other difficult opponents. Instead the ERE should be made an ally or protectorate if possible. If they aren't dealt with, however, it's necessary to maintain armies in the Constantinople area and so on to defend against counter-attacks. I'd suggest punitive expeditions and then making them a protectorate. They're a good buffer zone. Perhaps one province east of the Bosphorus could be a good base to have.
    c. the WRE - it's necessary to attack them because you need Rome. They'll have plenty of trouble from all their wars, so they should be easy to strike, and methodically conquering their settlements one by one should be possible. The problem might perhaps be if they're so weakened that the other barbarians are strengthened and end up threatening you. I suggest conquering mainly the eastern parts of the WRE, and not touching the rest of their empire. In order to get the needed 16 provinces, you can go into the Switzerland area late in the campaign if needed.
    Under construction...

    "In countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Norway, there is no separation of church and state." - HoreTore

  7. #7

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    My strategy as Goths is quite different, although it has its own complications. Because I cannot build ports as Goths (?) I started a great trek east, then went south into Armenia, through the Sassanid lands, through the Arabian desert and into Egypt, and finally to Carthage and into the Berber lands. I decided to forge an Empire in Africa, with carthage as its centre city. On the way, I avoided conflict until I entered Egypt and sacked Alexandria. AI avoids war with a four stack horde too, and they didn't dare to attack me on the way. It was quite eerie to see the ERE "escorting" me with full stacks through their southern lands (it was like they knew what I was up too ;) ), but I managed to block them at a bridge and forced them to take a southern ford over the Nile. At that time, I struck Alexandria.

    After that, I settled in carthage and attacked the Berbers. During all the time I spent trekking around, the Franks managed to conquer a sizable Empire and already have Rome.

    My strategy was: Conquering the Berber cities while at the same time going searaiding undefended cities from east and west empires. With that money, I take on the ERE in Egypt and maybe the holy land/Levant area. The Islands are a target too, as is Iberia. When I had enough provinces, I wanted to go for Rome and Constantinople at the same time and win!

    Now I think I will try to attack Italy first, to keep the Franks from winning.

    As BI seems to have a completely different balancing than RTR (what I played before) even the Berbers seem to be a challenge now as a Goth horde. I suffered a sizable defeat against them, and lost many horde units and all of my precious foot archers. In the end, I won with a second stack through sheer numbers.

    I have the impression that christianity is a must for the goths, as they are short on happiness/health buildings. Which is a pity, as I wanted to go for human sacrifices one more ... maybe I mod the health buildings in.

  8. #8

    Smile Re: Goths (BI faction)

    Gothic Way in BI

    I did very well with my Goths. I like their units well. My main experiences are that you have to turn into a HORDE after a few ticks. I used the main tips I made for the Frankish fraction which can be found here:

    The key to my strategy is what I called Blitzkrieg above.

    It was my goal to avoid the main Horde way west like Vandals, Huns and Sarmatians did. No wonder that I went into Greece. First I plundered Salona and besieged Thessalonica. Some times I travelled apart of enemy Hordes, and plundered some cities several times. I think that I did this with Salona 4 times during the game.
    Well behind Macedonia there is not much resistance. It is easy to plunder Athens (I thought about settling in there and move across the water into Italy, but that does not work. Your navy sucks, Rebels rule the sea and you cannot improve navy installations!). So I turned against Constantinople and got a lot of money there.
    Meantime other Hordes had overrun the Danube Rivers defension of the WRE and Illyrian. I marched through that lands and plundered the Rebels here and there on my way to Italy. Here the WRE defends Milano very hard, but has only small garrisons in other cities south of it (compare with my Frankish thread). While go into position at Milano, the Vandals came in there too. They fought some WRE units and suffered some losses. I helped them to manage the big WREs packs there too and allied up with them. Finally I was the one that could lay siege at Milano first and the Vandals started unwilling to move to Gaul.
    I did not trust them and got right. While I besieged Ravenna, they declared war at me but did not approach me in a reasonable way. I decided to force them out of Italy. I stormed the bridge in the Alps between Gaul and Italy under Vandal fire and took position with an army there. My force was bigger, but the coming Vandal attack used much more men I had at this location. But I defended this bridge well. Due their losses against others and me they had only 2 small packs left. I used a proper cavalry army to pursuit them into Gaul. In several battles I forced them over the Spanish borders where I knocked them finally out.
    The war with the Vandals changed my plans. I started to siege Ravenna, Rome and Tarentum while I fought the Vandals. Because I could not make a new home and loose my armies during a hard war. So I delayed this besieging operations several times (breaking the siege and start it again in the same tick). Because I went into Spain pursuiting the Vandals I pillaged Tartassos, Arles and Marseille on my way back, while other small forces pillaged Augusta and Carnutum in the north.
    This way I had around 170000 Denari when I finally took Rome, Tarentum and Ravenna in the same tick, starting immediately to build forces.

    Huge stacks of farmers and some good units scared away the Sarmations and Huns that tried to come into Italy while I build up. Easy to sack other cities like Milano, Arles and Marseille from the Rebels. This time my initial province Dakia made a rebellion to my favour, but I was not able to keep it and moved my forces out into Macedonia. A rebellion there established the Ostrogoths in Dacia.
    Because nobody took the once pillaged areas of Greece and Macedonia I did it with my forces out of Dacia and some reinforcements. Later I took Constantinople with them too, but there was often a problem with Rebels and other tribes at the Balkans.
    To improve my purse I made a few ships and snaked into Sardinia and later Sicily to made them become my own. This was a very good move. This helped me to establish trade routes to the Berbers who owned all northern Africa but Egypt and filled my now absolutely empty purse again. I made peace with ERE now, because they had left nothing in Europe. To trade with Berbers and ERE made me strong again. To get the missing provinces for my victory conditions I only had to take over some provinces at the Balkans and Gaul mostly from Rebels, but also from Langobards and Ostrogoths. Nastiest moment was when the Huns tried to come into Italy. Fortunally they fought long and hard before this against the WRE in northern Gaul and kicked the Alamanni out of the game. So their forces still where dangerous but no match for my generals and their proven forces. All my field armies where made in Ravenna, Milano or Rome and had at least 3 veteran points and or silver shields/weapons or both while building. So I killed the Huns Horde and won the game ;)

  9. #9

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    I have only begun, but have been lucky enough to Horde on turn one and march my way to Rome. I sacked a couple fo cities on the way. I currently own all of Italy and am moving slowly west. Other then the Oster....(sp) I have had no real threats. They have taken over most of WRE and have attacked me with some pretty huge armies. While taking them on on my own land I have taken a smaller army west into their heart and exterminated some weak cites. Use the next turn to repair my whole army then sell ALL buildings. Then march to find the next victim (city). This is slowing them down and I will soon go for their throat. I have been lucky as other Hordes have shown their faces but have yet to march into my land. I really like to keep a good network of towers and spys to keep a good eye on all my neighbors. Money and happiness are good. Waiting to see who the next real threat will be!!

  10. #10
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Mar 2005
    Trying to get to Utopia

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    I started several tries but was not very successful so far. Maybe s.o. can give me a good advice. You all seem to perform sió much better than I do.

    I play vh/vh.

    1. I stayed at home building new troops (bandits and speers). The hordes came and went without attacking me. So i took my army and invaded ERE. However, now they had really ugly garrisons and I did not come very far.

    2. I attacked the rebel town in the east. I trained new units in my home town for about 5 turns. Then I left both towns and hroded south. I stormed Thessa and layed besiege on Constantinopel. Won both and I settled both. However Cony rebelled and I lost my garrison and peoples there. With only few men and little pop in Thessa I gave up.

    3. Next one: I took the rebel town at once. I built wooden walls (advanced at my hometown) and trained some new units. I built a fort at the valley in the east to stop hordes. It worked. They finally came from the south but I gained time. I took my army and attacked the Roman town in the southwest. They sallied and I slaughtered them. They tried to take the town back and I fought another big Roman army. It was not a big deal. But then my home town was attacked by the Vandals. Though I had 4 archers, 2 spears, 1 peasant, one merc HA and two FMs there I could not stand the attack.

    So can somebody help me. I am willing to have another try this evening

  11. #11

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    Quote Originally Posted by Franconicus

    2. I attacked the rebel town in the east. I trained new units in my home town for about 5 turns. Then I left both towns and hroded south. I stormed Thessa and layed besiege on Constantinopel. Won both and I settled both. However Cony rebelled and I lost my garrison and peoples there. With only few men and little pop in Thessa I gave up.

    So can somebody help me. I am willing to have another try this evening
    When your horde settles down for the first time, the culture penalty in that city is reduced to zero. Therefore it would have probably been better if you had taken Constantinople first, because the cultural penalty in such a huge city can hardly be lowered in any other way.

    Bastard Operator

  12. #12

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    My strategy is always horde up turn one. Leave for Rome, sacking everything along the way. Rome is ready for your use when you get there, and there won't be much resistance. Let the other hordes duke it out in eastern europe while you get settled in Italy and Gaul. Since it is mostly steppe hordes you're "fleeing" from, when you get back there won't be much culture penalty.

    Goth armies are insanely powerful very quickly. As has been stated, their spears are excellent. Their foot archers are the best in the west. And Goth lancers are pretty good light cav. And here's the thing: you only need a large town to retrain them all--which is pretty much everywhere you're going to fight. This is the key to their power. A balanced force of spears, archers, and lancers can defeat an army with better troop types as long as your tactics are sound. You will almost always outnumber your opponents because of rapid production and retraining. Later in the game, you're going to want some warriors (decent swordsmen), especially for sieges, but I wouldn't bother with horse archers (Goth Raiders have longer range, more firepower, and can stand in melee pretty well). Goth heavy cav is nice, but you'll neeed a huge city to retrain them. I usually don't bother there.

    You have to win rather quickly because their building tree is pathetic, otherwise, you will have unrest problems. But given the cheap combined arms forces you can rapidly produce, it shouldn't take long at all, and it doesn't take long. Against other hordes, your foot archers can mow down horse archers with ease, your spears can go toe to toe with any horde spears or cavalry (and screen the archers), and your lancers can crash the sword infantry from the flank. And unlike the other steppe peoples, you can train peasants for heartland garrions, which means more money for more real troops.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    It is true tech tree is bad for Goth.
    I went horde at once, sack every thing until Spain.
    So rich then, all family must be kept from cities because of bad trait
    Got all Spain as base(visigoth), and most Gaul on way to Rome.
    Mean while original Goth city revolt back to me for free!! It was in bad way, so expensive to get control. Even full with 120 size unit just yellow on normal tax!!

    I take long time, and try to build cities, but it is not paying off too too much because of bad tech tree. Have taken so long, may not get Constantinople in time... we will see.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    My strategy for the goths was not to horde at all. To do this and not get stomped by the hordes you need to divert them into your rivals lands.

    Do this by building forts around your starting city and campus lazyges, which should be taken as soon as possible to help with raising money. By blocking off all the mountain passes and keeping some slave spears and raiders inside you will divert all but the most determined of hordes north to affect your barbarian rivals or south to be dealt with by the ERE.

    Lots of alliances/trade agreements are also important especially if you can extract some money with it. I found exploiting the tribute time bug can help, although it is not absolutely necessary if you don't like exploiting the AI (using it against the romans can bring in 1-2k per turn if you are lucky).

    Slowly build up an army of conquest and keep some spies around your neighbors just to see if there are any rebelling cities you can snap up on the cheap. Don't attack the romans just yet as they have not been weakened enough, but keep an eye on sirmium and aquincum as they might rebel and give you a chance of capturing them without stirring up trouble.

    Keep expanding by attacking cities that rebel until you get attacked by one of the roman factions. be prepared for this and attack either constantinople or ravenna depending on who attacked you first. These cities will give you a healthy cash bonus to build up your defensive forces and improve your martial buildings. If you think you will have to face romans on the field try to position your army in a defensive position (bridge, back to mountain etc) and let them attack you. this will give your troops a chance against the cominantenses and also make sure you have a few raider units to pepper them with fire arrows before they close so that they will rout quickly. classic hammer and anvil techniques are advised with cavalry to flank them. your generals will be invaluable in breaking them up and to destroy the army as it routs. I normally use two or three family members per battle against romans.

    Once you have a major city to play with it can become easier. Watch out for rebelling cities as this will make them vulnerable and keep an eye to the east for sneaky attacks from the samartians and other hordes.

    If you want to weaken the ERE a good tactic is to attack Ephesus ancyra (depending on which is least well defended) from constantinople and sack it, leaving the military buildings INTACT. You then leave it to revolt bringing the ostrogoths into the game. When the ERE retake it (as they will) they will then have a horde running around in their least defended region causing havoc. (idea adapted from justgivingfeedback's suggestion on the .com forum)

    Finally you need to concentrate on taking the italian cities and then move into france. this helps weaken the WRE and strengthen you by giving you large cash boosts (extermination is often advised as the cultural penalties in these cities is large and you don't have much opportunity to upgrade/replace buildings). Hire as many vetinarii as you can to give you a fighting chance against the romans- two or three well placed units to mix with your spears help counter their cominantenses, and with gothic warriors/ cavalry flanking you can soon destroy their armies leaving them open to you capturing more of their cities. I also don't recommend too many sieges against well defended cities- try to pick off the weaker ones or wait until you are counterattacked so you can fight them in the open.

    Once you have italy and greece you just have to take a few more cities for victory- just watch out for any new hordes and keep your eastern borders blocked with forts to divert them away to the north.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    I decided to take Campus Lazyges to my left. That went well till the hordes started knocking at my door. I decided to horde myself and take Sirmium. Still the Vandals and Huns hounded me. So I decided to take Athens instead. Once I settled into Athens I advanced towards Thessalonica. So far so good, the Goths have some really good units that made things easier.

    Once Athens and Thessalonica were in my hands and I was settled I moved against Constantinople. The ERE was being battered by the Sassanids in my game so they weren't any trouble. By this time the hordes had settled and I was able to start moping up the rebel towns around me. Since it was only my first time playing BI I was playing on Easy/Easy - I haven't played RTW in ages also.

    I figure if I was playing a higher difficulty setting I would have been anihilated when I failed to settle the first time at Sirmium (the ERE city just Southwest of Campus Dacia). When I play the Goths again in a harder setting, I figure I would just move South right away and settle there. I have yet to see a game where any horde moves down towards Athens. Athens is large enough and rich enough to provide a good base of operations and Thessalonica and Constantinople are just a spear throw away. I would settle in Constantinople first, but most of the time I play the hordes attack the city. I just want to have time to develop in peace for a while before I have to deal with hordes.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    Just remember that significantly later on the Slavs are going to make straight for Constantinople when they appear. It seems to me that they always do this (it is their only requisite city).

    "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"
    -Michael Palin

  17. #17

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    Yeah, but by the time the slavs came I was sufficiently built up that they were no threat. I am trying this strategy with the Sarmatians right now on M/M and so far things have been going smoothly. The Slavs haven't appeared yet though.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    With the Goths your initial strategy should really be geared towards taking Constantinople, Thessalonica and Athens in the first fifteen turns or so - naturally you should do this as a horde. Once the first two are taken build forts at the bridges north of them, and you'll never have trouble from the other Hordes. Ever.

    After that, consolidate, get an Alliance with the ERE, get trade rights with everyone, etc, and build up you forces for the next phase, which is a direct and prolonged assault on the WRE. You should be making 5000d per turn by now, so you know the score - build, conquer, advance. Ad infinitum.

    Works for me on H/H.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    Hi! I just bought Barbarian Invasion and decided to take it easy, so I went for the Goths in Easy settings. I might have tried some strategies you people suggested, but I was just letting things happen this time. Anyway, I conquered the rebel settlement to the west, and a couple of turns after sent my army to attack an ERE Rebels city to the south. Meanwhile, the hordes came and I won a couple of victories (had to break the siege and rush north), but in the end they won and I had to pack up. Besides, my capital revolted to the Ostrogoths (I was trying to milk it for taxes and, of course, also hoping to turn into a horde and get the hell out of the Vandals' and Huns' way. It might be possible to stop them, though).

    This is no problem,because you can just go take whatever you want, right? I went for Byzantium and Thessalonica and took it after long sieges and several small battles. I'm considering heading south towards the balcanic peninsula with the remaining two stacks of the horde and start building a new army to wipe out the ERE west of the Bosphorus. Does this make sense?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    If you once engaged ERE and settled near their borders it is best to kick them out of Europe to get rid of their strikes. For money it might be useful to grab Krete too. The Aegeis, the area around Cypris.. these are the usual milkcows in RTW. For the Goths these 2 areas are not too pretty, because you had to go in nowadays Turkey to gain all the benefits its offers. But European coastline of ERE including Krete is fine in with your starting strategy.

    I prefer to go Horde with the Goths. Make a few spys and some archers during the first ticks, milk my homeland and then pack and sack whatever you can sack on my way west. You will get no benefit in killing other Hordes. Leave them alone in the east, jump in front of them. Most Hordes move very slow and fight over very long time in the Balkans and north of Italy. Jump in front of them. There are better fishes to fry west of that, belive me. I already made my points for this strategy in the Vandal and Frankish threats. It pleases me more then to stick in the Balkans where many fractions will come to cross.

  21. #21
    Imperialist Brit Member Orb's Avatar
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    Dec 2004

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    With goths I horded and settled in this nice tract of land in Italy
    I then hammered the Vandals to the east, the allemanni to the north and the pitiful remnants of the WRE in the west simultaneously and without great difficulty.

    I also use the Alans because they can irritate enemy lancers and cavalry as well as run down light infantry and outflank heavy infantry.

    The Gothic Spearmen are excellent, particularly when besieged. Ambushing enemy cavalry is my second major use for them.

    Stick one schiltrom behind that gap in the wall and noone can ever break through it (noone being about 6 units of elite cavalry, 4 units of good infantry and a general).

    Chosen swords and warriors quite good for general staying power and holding walls as well as besieging.

    Raiders are ok but not spectacular. Can be nasty in areas with tall grass.

    Lancers are very useful indeed as a general flanking force.

    'My intelligence is not just insulted, it's looking for revenge with a gun and no mercy. ' - Frogbeastegg


    The life of tomorrow is too late - live today!

  22. #22
    Magistrate of Pirkka Member Sebastian Seth's Avatar
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    Sep 2004
    Tampere, Finland, Europe, Earth

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    I tried few turns with M/M...

    I tought I try to keep Dacia and took Tribus lazygens for money.

    1st game
    I managed to build 4 x goth spearmen, 4 x goth raider, 3 x goth lancer and I got 2 bodyguard units form faction generals and 1 alain mercenary archer.
    The huns came and attacked with 4 stacks. I placed the goth spearmen in sculthrum formation to block 1 road and the raiders around the flag to arrow down to all directions. Then I used cavarly to draw them to that plocked road and charged them there. After the battle I had 7 from 458 man left but I won. The huns lost 1976 men. Faction leader gained 6 experience but died and got healed and then reseted. Faction heir got 6 experience and 391 kills with 13 man. I was so exited that I decided to give it another try.

    2nd game
    I managed to build 4 x goth spearmen, 4 x goth raider, 4 x goth lancer and I got 3 bodyguard units form faction generals. This time it was the vadals and they attacked with 3 stacks. I changed my tactic a bit and used the spearmen and the raiders to hold the other road and charged the other road with cavarly. I managed to get 2200+ kills but was under 100 in man streight again. Next attack finished me.

    The spearmen dont actualy kill so many but they are needed to hold the road.
    The raiders are really lethal but they get runned over easy.
    Lancers where really effective but they seem to get tired easy.
    The bodyguards are the key element because the hordes are scared of em.


    I think I try to build fortresses to hold the hordes next time. But It seems really hard to hold Dacia at start.
    Humans very easy to make and very hard to understand. - SS

  23. #23

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    in my game, i built 6 spearmen, 3 raiders, probably 2 lancers, and 5 general units, along with merc vetenarii, bosphorun mercs and 2 alan , 1 armoured sarmation HA. plan went pefectly, i gaurded the town square. 2 spearmen in each alley way. HA to slow their advance, raiders to shoot and kill them from town square, vetenarii and bosphorun mercs to throw in where we were losing, lancers to also throw in and the generals as a last ditch effort. i killed basically everyone but about 100 from thier two full stacks, and i didnt lose very many at all. goths can really hold kick some hunnic buttocks. wow, that las remark sounded so laaaaammeee!!!!

  24. #24

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    I milked campus lazyges for mining cash until the hordes came knocking, then horded up and headed for Greece, settling in Thessalonika, Athens ,and Constantinople. Stayed quiet for a few turns, built up (specializing my provinces for 1 troop type per helped to save me cash and let me build econ buildings, cav from thes,inf and missile from the two closer ones), took sirm off the rebels, and let the hordes do my dirty work in the west. came in after and took Ravenna. WRE R back stabbed me (were allied), so I kicked em off of Italy and uot of the Balkans. more than halfway to victory and sitting pretty with 4 full stacks, and have my reqiured specific settlements. currently at war w/ the settled Huns. will march again tomorrow and make another report.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    Have expanded back up into the original territories again (a good move, as mining income from both Dacia and campus lazyges is substantial), took Aquincum to connect Greece and Italy, and Carnuntum (to keep watch on the WRE and the Germanic barbarians), have the King's Army operating in Italy, the Heir's in Pannonia, and am building another in Greece to defend from the eventual attack from the Slavs, as they seem to just head straight towards Constantinople. I am using the forts at river crossings (Danube) trick that some ERE players like to use, except I have a two-layer version of it (also using it at the river line north of the Danube) this lets one stack defend a lot of territory without having to lose settlements. Was attacked by horded Burgundians (Aquincum), faction heir had night fighter, so i fought them at night one stack at a time, wiped em out in 1 turn ;-D. The war with the Huns never amounted to much, I whupped one army as they reinforced a seige, they came offering peace next turn, I accepted after charging them some cash. Sarmatians pulled the same trick as Burgundii (in Mediolanum), King has night fighter, pulled same trick as faction heir -result-yet another one turn wipeout, this time King gets a trait increase for Night Fighter. am now in the process of cleaning up WRER in the Med, getting ready to take a lightly defended Kydonia from the ERER, and spawning the Ostrogoths in Sarmatia to keep everyone north of me busy (and they will make a nice shield against the Slavs). am only like 4 settlements shy of victory, who knows, tomorrow, maybe Carthage. (am trying to have a reason to be at war... the WRER started it, so it is my pet project to make them as weak as possible)
    Last edited by MerlinusCDXX; 01-05-2007 at 07:45.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    what i done was i horded myself and went east. and i fought the rebels and settled there. i later attacked some more rebels. (i made a LOT of allies when i was a horde. ) then set my eyes on the homeland. i got that and then went down fighting the ERE. It was easy-peasy! (well to tell you the truth i play this on easy ) took Greece then started to think...what sholud i do? well i chosen to covert my pagen to the teaching of Jeuses! (it made me say it as well.) that wasn't a very good idea AT ALL! some of my regions rebelled and i kicked them out faster than you can say"hello and good-night!" but i was ok.

    The moral of this story is this:don't try to follow the pagen ways AT ALL!

  27. #27

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    All right, I hadn't actually planned on posting here (I like lurking just fine), but my recent experiences as the Goths have convinced me to make an exception.

    I'd never played as the Goths before, and I didn't look at this strategy thread until after. So, I planned to hold my capital and just take over the Balkans. I knew I was right in the way of the hordes, having played as the ERE prior to this, but I guessed that I could hold them at some stone-walled cities, and push them west into the Romans to soften 'em up for me.

    Things started out pretty well. Campus Iazyges fell to my initial army, which would later become the only experienced troops remaining in the empire after the coming onslaught. Aquincum and Salona rebelled, and I nabbed them, as well, before the Romans could retake the buggers.

    Now, disaster struck. The Huns and the Vandals at last entered my lands after a few squabbles with each other. My nwo veteran army raced back to the capital to defend it, while I prepared garrisons in all cities. I managed to shadow the Vandals around the Carpathian mountains, and they went on to settle in Thessalonica and Athens without fighting me.

    The Huns, however, stormed Campus Iazyges. My garrison of peasants and slave spearmen proved ineffective at holding the walls (I had never used the spearmen before, didn't know what they were capable of), and that general was killed. The menace swept on to Aquincum, but I had had time to prepare. 2 Gothic Spearmen, several minor units of cavalry, and 3 raider units awaited the Huns. The first three hordes only brought ladders, and only one unit at that. The raiders killed thousands while the spearmen were met at the walls by my own men, grinning and shoving a pointy stick in their face as they came over the wall.

    The next several stacks united to completely surround the city, and attacked a corner with 2 ladders and a siege tower. Here, the archers were able to fire across the corner into the backs of the men on the other wall, supporting each other and my spearmen. The battle lasted nearly the full 45 minutes, but at last the last Hun dropped from the ladders, dead. My men had slaughtered all their infantry before the walls of Aquincum.

    In the meantime, the Western Roman Empire had decided to reclaim Salona and drove my minor army there out (the army that had taken it was off keeping the Vandals out of Dacia). With Iazyges and Salona gone (with 2 of my family members, as well), Aquincum besieged, I made a desperate strike at the rebel Constantinope (the Sarmatian horde had razed the city a few years earlier). I managed to take the weakly held city, dragging me out of the red (I had been at -8000 denarii before, trying to garrison all cities against the Huns), then raced back to relieve Aquincum.

    I never made it. The city's brave defenders starved to death after a sally attempt failed against the multitudes of cavalry. I was fairly desperate now - all my conquered territories had fallen. Most of my garrison armies had been destroyed, and my family tree was virtually wiped out in the losses, leaving only the original king's eldest son and his two boys. I was left with 1 major army, 2 provinces, 3 family members, and a massive debt.

    Somehow, I survived. The Huns headed north and messed around with the barbarians for a while, while I retook Iazyges and started a war with the ERE by taking Siriminium, I believe it's called. With that victory, the purples were driven out of Europe, due to my efforts and those of the Vandals now settled in Greece, Macedonia, and Salona. A second full stack army was trained, though it strained my resources to the limit to support them, and arrived in Iazyges just as the Huns reappeared.

    The war that followed was the longest, hardest fought one I've ever had in Rome: Total War, and I've played as nearly every faction. Each turn, the several stacks of Huns would besiege Iazyges. My two armies, led by my faction leader, the same general who had originally taken the city 20 years before, and the heir, who was governing Dacia but was more needed at the front, dashed around the fringes, picking battles where the odds were nearly even. Gradually, I whittled them down. One of my armies was wrecked in a near defeat when I lost cohesion against the numerous horse archers, leaving me with 1. This one, commanded by my faction leader, met that of the Hunnic faction leader one cold winter's night. In the battle that followed, the Huns were completely routed in hard fighting, though my king was slain achieving the victory. Two Hun full stacks remained, hwoever, and my last army had been devastated achieving this much.

    However, I had learned how to fight the Huns. Before, my armies were primarily spearmen and raiders. Experience with the horsemen in black, however, convinced me to train an entirely new army. This one was composed of a spine of a few spearmen adn archers, with a strike force of nearly ten lancer units and numerous horse archers in support. They arrived on the field just as my original two armies could fight no more. In the next two years, both Hunnic stacks were utterly destroyed by the new army. My king, and the lost provinces, were at last avenged.

    In the meantime, I had managed to storm Thessalonica and Athens against weak Vandal armies. After the defeat of the Huns, I at last retook Aquincum and Salona, also Vandal territories, and made them a horde again, aimed at the WRE. Now, my seasoned forces will be flung into Italy, to take Rome and achieve final victory for the Goths!

    So, basically, this lengthy post is just to show that hording is not the only way to have a fun game as the Goths! The battles against the Huns in this one were the most fun I've ever had, simply because they were the most desperate, with the most riding on them I've ever had. So, Gothic strategy? I didn't have any real one - just picked my battles, fought where I could win, avoided them if I couldn't win, and studied my enemy for a weakness. The Goths are uniquely suited with their versatile armies for this style of play, so I recommend someone else try the defense of Dacia sometime! Quite honestly the best Total War experience I've ever had.
    I don't have a signature yet.


    Oh, wait...

  28. #28

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    I found the experience of playing the Goths as trying to stand in the middle of a busy road. You tend to get squashed. You get the Samartians, Vandals and Huns all passing through in quick succession.

    The strategy that worked for me is to horde immediatedly and then take the nearest Eastern Empire city and use that as a base. Playing at the hardest level of difficulty this allowed me to conquer all of Eastern Europe.

    They have very good units for the early game. Good spearmen, archers, light cavalry. They are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

  29. #29
    Member Member Mangudai's Avatar
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    Oct 2005
    The Middle West

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    In my view the most fun way to play is as a horde. You can re-horde in midgame and be stronger than ever before! Horde size depends mostly on the population of the city you horde from. So settling your first horde, then raising a second one in Rome really rocks!

    It seems enemy hordes do not usually attack each other unless one of them blocks the path of the other. I have recrossed the map multiple times, and come close to the Vandals and Huns many times without a fight. It helps to have a diplomat nearby to ask for a ceasefire, but this is not always necessary. It also helps to save often because sometimes you may block them and provoke a fight, but if you stop one space to the left they leave you alone. Also I never maintain mercenaries with my horde. With zero mercs there is zero expense, and all the time in the world to maneuver.

    If you kick the nests of the lombards, burgundians, and franks you can force them to become hordes. They always seem to accept a ceasefire the first turn they become a horde. There is little danger of squandering your horde by attacking them. Once loose, they will turn WRE into anarchy.

    As the Goths I find it best to spend about 9 turns milking the homeland, then horde. Like many others i take tribus lazygens and build some forts. I recommend enslaving this population because a bigger pop in dacia will give you a bigger horde.

    I build blacksmith 1 and 2 in dacia, and recruit 9 raiders there. In tribus lazygens i build a stable and 5 lancers. when the lvl2 blacksmith is finished i retrain all my forces including family members. At this point I'm bankrupt and it's time to horde.

    This early in the game Greece is poorly defended, I sack it forthwith, but do not settle down. Then I move west sacking along the way. I think I hit the lombards on the way as well. I settle in Rome and two other Italian cities. I spend all my cash on military units. Let the other two italian cities revolt, then horde up from Rome. At this point I have 9 full stacks. 7 stacks are horde troops, 2 stacks worth are tricked out hard core regulars.

    I've tried settling one city, disbanding just 1/3 of my horde then hording back up. This seems to always result in a slightly smaller horde. There can be an advantage in doing this. First you can give the other 2/3 blacksmith upgrades. Second, you can convert slave spearmen into more useful troops. Have the army that takes the city be all slave spearmen, and place the rest of your slave spearmen close by on the map. Have valuable horde troops be far away. The 1/3 that disbands will be almost all slaves. Keep the city at least one turn, then horde up again. I found that disbanding about 16 units, I got back about 10.

    At midgame Europe is complete anarchy. It will take a long time to see who prevails. The Saxons and the Franks are early favorites to form the first big empires. So I go sack Denmark and stir up the Burgundians. If the Allemani are still alive I let them alone as well. Chaos is served by leaving as many competitors as possible. I really can't decide if it is worthwhile to attack the Franks or not. Either way they are liable to form a major empire in Gaul.

    With Greece wounded early, the ERE will inevitably succumb to the Sassanid empire. There is only one faction in BI that is predictable, the Sassanids. Therefore it is vital to nip their plans for world order in the bud. I hike to the far eastern extreme of the map, then south. This is a long hike but it takes little time, as there are few battles and turns are not complicated. The Roixolani may be trying to invade along the eastern shore of the black sea. I go around them. Sassanids main forces are concentrated on the ERE in the west. I sack all the poorly defended Sassanid cities I can find. Then finally find a homeland.

    My choice of homeland is Antioch, Jerusalem, and Alexandria. These give great cash flow! And they are built higher on the tech tree than the Goths can ever match. If the ERE is still near Antioch, its better to find an alternative. Because it sucks to be between ERE and the Sassanids! The Sassanids and ERE will never stop fighting each other unless you get between them. Benefit from their mutual attrition.

    I've used this strategy with several horde factions.
    Goths have good anti-clibinari units compared to most factions. By the endgame several factions bit the dust, i know not how or where. Somebody in the west is ending the chaos and forming a large empire. I've often seen the saxons or the franks become powerful in the west. Any of the horde factions might have taken up residence in greece or italy, but they are menaced by all the remaining factions so not a great threat. I've seen the Vandals secure in Spain and expanding out. Once I've seen the Roixilani become masters of most of Germany and Russia. I've seen the lombards rule Italy (but not for long). I've seen the Slavs and the Ostrogoths emerge as major empires, or sometimes they die with a whimper.

    Playing a globe trotting horde is a great way to play! Every game is different. The late game map bears no resemblance whatsoever to the starting map, and there is no telling who will be where and how strong.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Goths (BI faction)

    Is it really necessary to horde at the beginning? I always hate giving up dacia, simply because there is so much arable land there (seriously, build some farms and watch the entire province sprout fields. It is an incredibly rich province, and the capital, so giving it up seems a waste unless ABSOLUTELY necessary.

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