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Thread: Franks (BI faction)

  1. #91
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    I beat the Franks on VH/VH without many problems by going straight for the large WRE city west of your starting city. It may be a tough fight, but it can easily be accomplished if you do it with care and keep reinforcing your beseiging army from your capital. During my campaign I allied with all the barbarian factions and expanded almost exclusively at the expense of the WRE until very late in the game.


  2. #92

    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    I started another game and this went much better. I sacked campus chatti (Berlin???). Since I experienced the WRE to atack after only a few turns I posted nearly the whole army from my capital (Frankurt) at the Rhine-bridge. By that I could delay the WRE's attack a few turns. The next years were a constant struggle against the mighty army of the WRE. I could not hold the bridge but finally managed to crush them.
    This time they didn't get any reinforcements. Thus, I could conquer Trier and Köln quickly one after another. By now I also sacked campus frisi (Amsterdam?). The saxons have a huge army in the north so they will be the next to deal with. The WRE still atacks me but their amies can easily defeated at the moment.

    By these experiences I can give some major hints:

    1. Let some of your family members die! This might sound curious as they are your most powerful units. But their upkeep is too expensive at the beginning and you get too much of them. This realy improves your financial situation.

    2. Expand to the west ASAP. Don't let the WRE become strong again. You will need at least 3 cities to have enough ressources.

    3. The saxons are your enemy. Allthough the WRE is you primary goal you can't coexist with them. Keep them small but don't waste your ressources on them as long as the WRE is still strong.

    4. Use the rhine bridge to meet the WRE armies. To beat them, you will need swordsmen as your spearmen are chanceless against their stronger units.

    5. Don't go to the east. You will just enage in battles you can avoid. I allied with Allemanni, Burgundi and long-beards.

  3. #93

    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    It's pretty key to avoid fights with factions that can horde too---this means allying with the Burgundians, if at all possible, while the Saxons and the Alemanni are safe to go after. Hitting the Alemanni before they can build too many berserkers is a good idea. I initially allied with the WRE so I could fight and eliminate the Saxons and the Alemanni, and then the treacherous Romans backstabbed me so I could have at them with a clear conscience.

  4. #94
    Member Member Dt3r's Avatar
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    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    Quote Originally Posted by paul.muad.dib
    I started another game and this went much better. I sacked campus chatti (Berlin???). Since I experienced the WRE to atack after only a few turns I posted nearly the whole army from my capital (Frankurt) at the Rhine-bridge. By that I could delay the WRE's attack a few turns. The next years were a constant struggle against the mighty army of the WRE. I could not hold the bridge but finally managed to crush them.
    This time they didn't get any reinforcements. Thus, I could conquer Trier and Köln quickly one after another. By now I also sacked campus frisi (Amsterdam?). The saxons have a huge army in the north so they will be the next to deal with. The WRE still atacks me but their amies can easily defeated at the moment.

    Glad it's going much better for you. ^^

    Good news for you... the Saxons have a very nice temple you might want to keep, +3 for missile weapons. And with the territory you have, the Saxon capital is easy to defend.

    Now that you fought off the inital attack by the WRE, you should be fine. If they have a civil war you're in a good position to exploit it. Since you said you'll be heading exclusively west, you may want to send one of those extra generals along your eastern border to build watchtowers.

  5. #95
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    I think the easiest thing is to go horde first turn, then split up the horde in three parts, laying siege on the two closest roman cities with two of them, and siege on the saxon capital with the third one. Then I assaulted the cities and settled. I converted all the cities to Christianity, and lost two of them because of it, but I could deal with the incoming Roman counter-attacks and retake the lost roman city soon enough. Retaking the saxon city was more difficult. After getting back the lost roman city, I retook my starting city. After that, it was pretty easy. Training mostly cavalry and using the family members and archers a lot made it easy to expand in all directions. As soon as I could, I trained paladins, and paladins + armor + foot archer support and perhaps a few levy spearmen can be quite powerful. Those units sufficed until I had conquered most of modern France and the Italian peninsula. I actually found levy spearmen to be the best infantry available for forming a line in the early stages, but relied more on cavalry and archers in most battles, as the lowest quality infantry was of quite low quality IMO. Not until fransisca heerbann becomes available is there any idea to train more infantry IMO.

    If acting quickly enough, the province goal will be completed before the hordes come. If not, I recommend having expanded east in order to be able to hire some vandal foot archer mercenaries, which are good for defending key cities vs the hordes. As the franks IMO lack good infantry before the francisca heerbann, I'd recommend fighting hordes using city defense and sallies rather than fighting them on open ground.
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  6. #96
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    I do not agree. There is no need to horde as Frank. If you katank you can easily take most of Gaul plus Augusta Vindelicorum and all of Italy before the first hords appear. That is quite easy. I never changed to Christianity, only if the town was already Christian (like some towns in Italy).

  7. #97

    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    Yeah, I never bothered converting towns; I just seized the Christian ones in Italy to build paladins and priests. Everything that was pagan was 100% pagan so I didn't see any point to trying to convert (and I never had any Christian family members anyway).

  8. #98
    Urwendur Ūrībźl Senior Member Mouzafphaerre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    .
    I've never yet come up to any christian towns in Italy or Gaul. All those stupid Mithra temples. I raze them as soon as I retrain my conquering units to get the bonus, because culture penalty is not something you want to live with. I even destroy some level 2 buildings unless I'm in a position to replace them with my level 3 ones.
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  9. #99

    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    Hm, in my game both Rome and Ravenna were Christian.

  10. #100
    Member Member Dt3r's Avatar
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    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    Quote Originally Posted by gardibolt
    Hm, in my game both Rome and Ravenna were Christian.
    Rome was the only Christian city I took in my game, I never took Ravenna. But yeah, I think most of the WRE is pagan except for a handful of Italian cities. (maybe Tarrentum?)

  11. #101
    Urwendur Ūrībźl Senior Member Mouzafphaerre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    .
    FKA Ravenna was pagan. I didn't touch Rome. (I think I'm going to sack her. )
    .
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  12. #102

    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    I don't remember exactly ANY Christian city in the WRE, because I like more the eastern fractions. But it is definitely true that Rome and Tarentum start as christian towns.
    If you start a WRE campain just to have a look for that you will see any details. However: In all cities of both Roman Empires you will find some basic Christianity inside theire population. The starting mix of religiones is one of the reasons for their troubles early on.
    I thougt it should be told, even when not new.

  13. #103

    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    I'm about to start a Frankish campaign. My plan is to Horde immediatly and get away from all those Germanic tribes, which in turn later in the game usually get the hordes.

    So, I'm going to take my Horde and capture the Iberian peninsula, from there I'll push back upwards towards the English channel, taking all of modern France. I'll let you know how I get on.

  14. #104
    Oza the Sly: Vandal Invasion Member Braden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    Ok, early campaign (as I’m only in the very early stages so far).

    You need income so need land. There are 5 rebel regions around you so consolidate what troops you have and I recommend striking North into Tribus Chattii. You need to get there before the Saxons start moving South.

    Use you’re diplomat and spy. The diplomat, I sent across to the WRE and started negotiating ANYTHING that generates income – they asked me to attack the Allemani, which I accepted once the price became too high to ignore! I also sold Trade Rights for a large lump sum which I immediately spent on queuing up troops and buildings in my Capital.

    I am basically sending the small army I started with on a round route to capture the Rebel provinces but have missed out on Tribus Frisii (the WRE repelled the Saxons and took it) so have sent them East. However, the WRE broke another money making deal (Military Access) with me so made themselves targets.

    With an army recruited with WRE money I have captured Augusta Treverorum, I was going to just strip it for cash but after slaughtering the population, the happiness is high and its making money per turn…..so I’m going to keep it as a step towards my key goals and it helps to defend my Capital by blocking the bridge. I used my spy to open the gates for me so managed to take the town with only two units of Hunters. I had a full army but decided to not use them once my spy told me who was in the settlement.

    I have trained two further diplomats and sent one North and the other East, all to get Trade agreements with whoever they encounter. The upside with taking a Huge city like Augusta Treverorum is that not only is it making money, so boosting my economy but it has a large population (even after the extermination) – something the barbarian factions lack. I now plan to constantly recruit Peasant units form here and feed them into Vicus Franki, which is my main recruitment base at the moment.

    This way I can off set the drop in population caused by recruiting warrior units AND increase the population in my main city so I can rapidly get to the higher level buildings.

    I did attack the Allemani as the WRE paid me too. I crushed their two armies and brokered a peace (more money to me) so have withdrawn from their lands.

    With all this income from diplomatic deals I’ve managed to boost my Capital but with my agreements with the WRE now in tatters it remains to be seen if I’ve stabilised my economy – I’m only approx 10 turns in, so this is very early game.

    So far I have: Tribus Franki, Tribus Chattii, Tribus Marcomanni and Germania Superior. I think the WRE may now pose a problem. I am likely to keep any taken cities with their own main religion and if it differs from my main religion I won’t keep a governor in it so as to try and reduce the penalties.
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  15. #105
    Oza the Sly: Vandal Invasion Member Braden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    I’m still early in the campaign but have effectively won already. This is mainly due to capturing two key regions:

    Tribus Marcomanni & Tribus Quaddi

    Both these start out, as Rebel held areas and although I was slow in getting them and hence had to combat the WRE in Quaddi that isn’t much of an issue as you will have to eventually be at war with them to complete your allotted tasks anyway.

    These two regions have become large cash generators because I have combined them with diplomatic agreements with the other barbarian tribes in Europe. Because of their location they seem to attract the large amount of trade from the other tribes they are surrounded by.

    Obviously, they also are targets and I’ve had minor problems but nothing serious so far. The only major disadvantage to them is also their advantage, location, as it leads them open to any Hordes coming from the East (although most tend to head South into Roman lands initially in my experiences).

    One of the difficulties playing the Franks (this may also apply to other Pagan factions) is the number of family members that you have. I’ve found that I’ve had so many that I’ve fielded an army where its only Cavalry IS family members! (4 in one partial stack)

    So, I’m lucky that I started off immediately on the Diplomatic course. Now I have trade and better treaties with virtually all the barbarian factions surrounding the Franks. Being centrally placed is ideal if you want to go down the Diplomatic route and your lucky in that the only people you have to wage war on is the WRE.

    I didn’t realise that you could ally with a Horde…..until the Goths accepted a proposal of an Alliance, I was confused that the “Trade Agreement” option wasn’t displayed until I noticed they were actually a Horde passing my diplomat! Once they’d settled though it was easy to set up trade with them (as my diplomat had shadowed the horde).

    The WRE are not overtly aggressive so have not expanded or even attempted to interrupt my gradual expansion West, although they have a large presence in the regions South of the river (Raetia, Noricum & Pannonia)
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  16. #106

    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    I like the way you play the Franks, as it is totally different to the way I got used. Sounds interesting enought to make a trial.. later :)
    Keep up to inform us about your progress.

  17. #107
    Oza the Sly: Vandal Invasion Member Braden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    Progress report:

    Its approx 393AD. With the Saxons destroyed I’ve been using their enhanced buildings to produce line troops with high weapon upgrades and as of last night I just completed one stack of such troops. These will be shipped down to Vicus Franki to be retrained and receive the +3/+4 experience upgrades from the temples.

    This will give Gold weapon, Silver armour and 1 Silver chevron experience Archers and the same with Levy Spearmen for example. Ouch!

    Fly’s in my ointment:

    War with the Burgundii and Lombardi’s as both went and broke our agreements by attacking Tribus Marcomanni. (Greedy, I call it) I have a near full stack in the region I use against rebels and as a deterrent to the WRE & ERE. I used it to break both sieges.

    I felt obliged to then march on into Tribus Burgundii to spank the petulant Burgundii’s

    The Burgundii now reside in Locus Barbaricum, I have left the Lombardi in Tribus Vandali – with only one substantial army in the region this needs to be done carefully and I need to ensure a gaggle of diplomats are in the region in case I encounter any Hordes. I won’t march this small army further East except to raid the Lombardi IF they continue to attack me.

    …however, the “Ozzy-Goths” are my allies and the Vandals have passed me by. That does leave the Sarmatian’s though….I know they’re about but hope they move South (not sure I could handle their heavy cavalry). My Eastern settlements are moving to build Stone walls and archer/spearmen combos for defence.

    The Alemanni dropped their long alliance with me when war broke out with the Burgundians – talk about backing a loosing horse!

    I have been preparing for my march on the three key regions I need – I think they’re Lugdinensis, Aquitania & Narbonensis – so have made two full stacks for this purpose (with the stack in progress from Tribus Saxones). One stack for each region needed.

    So, once the Alemanni dropped their alliance with me I marched one of them South, destroyed the Alemanni faction on the way then marched through Raetia, Alpes Maritimae Et Cottinae and onto Narbonensis.

    When it hit Alpes Maritimae Et Cottinae it encountered the Vandal Horde. The horde attacked but I withdrew towards my target. I had a diplomat in the area (spying out Arles), so I moved him in to ensure good will between us. So, once my army besieged Arles in the next two turns, the Vandal Horde just moved on past my army. Aren’t they nice! They’ve even moved into Goth lands so we’ll see what happens there, if the Vandals can deplete the Goths before I invade all the better………

    Another blue-bottle in my cream pie:

    The Celts. Although the WRE are happily in control of England the Celts have decided to land forces in Belgica – Twice! I’ve used the army I constructed there (as described above, one of them I’d planed to take my last regions) to repel both invasions with ease. They have nowhere to go so both armies have been utterly destroyed! Twits.

    You will note that I have been single-minded and did not take the cities Augusta Vindelicorum or Massilia. This allows for Hordes to play with the WRE rather than me.

    Anyway. Things progress, I have several treaties to renegotiate and an Ally in the Goths to betray – they hold both my remaining target regions.

    I require Seven regions (including the target ones) to Win and I think I’ll just take those in the Iberian Peninsula as my main armies will be in that area after taking my key regions.

    BTW – my original Faction leader died last night. He was 80+ but it means I’ve completed three quarters of the allotted game with the SAME faction leader. I had hoped he’d cling to life to see the end as it’s less than 10 years away (20 turns I’d estimate).

    I have not had to cull any family members in this game despite the large number that STILL keep “coming of age”. They make handy cavalry units and as I’m busy raising armies to make my final push they come in handy to lead these new armies AND lead patrol armies against any nosy neighbours on my Eastern borders.

    Despite the wars with the Barbarian tribes my income is still between 2-5k profit per month (dependant on Rebel activity) and I’ve found that Tribus Burgundii makes more than 1k per turn!! So that was a nice capture.

    Money is so good that I only need one stack of eight cavalry units for anti-rebel duties. I normally just send out a diplomat from one of my settlements to pay them off these days. It’s cheaper than the hit in trade it takes whilst I move an army to fight them.
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  18. #108
    Mr. Pleb Member roman pleb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    I picked the franks as my first choice for a BI campaign. I allied with the WRE to hold them off while i took the saxon and alemanni settlements. I don't know what temple the saxons had but now I train gold-sword archers. The WRE turned on me as well as the lombards and burgundii. I hit the WRE with assasins and took out most of their family members before i attacked them. I've already taken 8 of their settlements.

  19. #109
    Can't beat the Silence Member _Maximus_'s Avatar
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    Exclamation Re: Franks (BI faction)

    Playing with the Frank's is a pleasnt expirience! Ona thing that bothers me very much is that barbarian generals have a bad marks,ability's! I was trying to change it but it didn't work out! Because they all have bad habits and they are bloody! You are all familiar with the word "BLOODYHANDED"! And when you at least are sucessfull with upgradeing their attributes, they loose them too soon! I really don't know what to do! I really liked to play with Romans because they generals were outstanding! I am only going to say one thing! academy's! But I can't wait to install some of the patches to repair some bug's in the game,and I am also looking forward to play with MTW 2! I only hope that they will have sense to make some of the little less fractions,good generals! But we will see!

  20. #110
    Member Member Dead Knight of the Living's Avatar
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    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    I just purchased BI yesterday. I'm a bit behind the times. My first campaign is with the Franks. Since this is Barbarian Invasion, I felt it appropriate to start out as a Barbarian horde.

    I retrained all my troops since the capital has a blacksmith. I also trained a second spy. I allied with the Allemani. Second turn I became a Horde. I went straight to Avaricum which was defended by one general and some limitates (spelling). I took that easily. Now Avaricum is mine.

    I have another army up north which is going to sack the towns in northern Gaul just for some extra coin. Then I'm going to take the other two towns required for victory (I forgot their names already, but I'm sure you all know the two down in southern France I'm talking about.

    AFter that is achieved I'll have a major river as my eastern border and the Pyrennes to the west. I'll put some units on the bridges and passes for defense and begin development.

    When I'm happy with the progress of my development (and if I'm still alive) I'll beef up the defenses at the Pyrennes and begin my conquest of Northern Italy and Germany.

    This is my plan anyway. Whether it goes this way or not remains to be seen.


    And I'm outta here like last year.
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  21. #111
    Member Member Dead Knight of the Living's Avatar
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    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    My plan is experiencing "suck" factor 10 right now. I read in here someone said if you horde and go west you'll be way ahead of the conventional hordes.

    Well, maybe my case is the exception, but no sooner did I take Avaricum Burgidala and Arles than the Vandal Horde appeared. They took Avaricum, but lost a crud load of folks doing so, so I took it back easily.

    But then the Roxolani arrived and took Burgidala from me. I allied with the Vandals. The Vandals took Burgidala from the Roxolani. The Roxolani horded up and are right now besieging Arles.

    Prior to taking Arles, the Roxolani defeated my Faction Leader's full stacked army. He whipped up on me easily with pretty much nothing but horse archers and a few chosen swordsmen units. THe horse archers were too much for me. I ony had 3 units of hunters and one of those were down to 61 from a previous engagement.

    So after they whipped me, they besieged Arles where my Faction leader retreated to along with his heir. I have one field army which is only about 70% manned.

    No way will I save Arles. Arles is doomed. But I'm also generating almost no money.

    I'm getting my butt kicked. It's a nightmare folks.

    I get so mad reading this thread because I read a lot of you have conquered all of Gaul and are cruising along. I don't suck this bad. I never had problems like this in regular RTW or RTR. But here I am sucking. This sucks.

    I need hunters to counter the Horse Archers.

    But again, money is tight.

    I see myself rehording and trying to conquer Spain.

    But we'll see.



    I love this game so far. It's a real challenge for me. So far anyway.
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  22. #112

    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    When hording, you're usually better off not settling back down again for quite a while. Consider this plan: After retraining, horde, devastate all Gaul and much of Spain, not occupying, but making a ton of money. This land is no longer attractive to other hordes, since everything is in ruins, and they're likely to turn attention elsewhere. You send your wealthy horde into Italy, and finally settle down in the big, wealthy cities there. Then go back with armies and occupy Gaul and Spain, FTW.

  23. #113
    Member Member Dead Knight of the Living's Avatar
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    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    Quote Originally Posted by gardibolt
    When hording, you're usually better off not settling back down again for quite a while. Consider this plan: After retraining, horde, devastate all Gaul and much of Spain, not occupying, but making a ton of money. This land is no longer attractive to other hordes, since everything is in ruins, and they're likely to turn attention elsewhere. You send your wealthy horde into Italy, and finally settle down in the big, wealthy cities there. Then go back with armies and occupy Gaul and Spain, FTW.

    That's a good idea. And actually I've been kind of thinking about that. Right now I own Massilia and Avaricum. I've got my one field army at the bridge east of Massilia. And every other turn they're attacked by either the Goths (not horded) or the Roxolani (who is horded right now).

    The Roxolani are really making me mad. They've horded and are just hanging out around Gaul. They're not doing anything. THey don't attack cities or anything. THey just send an army to attack me every turn. Their armies must be regenerating. They keep coming back.

    I make just enough money to retrain my troops and put them back at that bridge.

    Avaricum is completely undefended (not counting 6 peasant units in the city). But nowone is attacking it right now. Kind of weird to me.

    I'm going to stick it out and see if I catch a break. The Roxolani and Goths have to go to war with each other eventually. I might be able to take back Arles if that happens. Then I'll see where I can go from there.
    "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake."
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  24. #114
    Member Member Dead Knight of the Living's Avatar
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    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    I lost. STarted over and sacked pretty much all of Gaul. I built up over a 100,000 denarii and have settled down in Spain where I'm kicking butt on some Western Roman Empire Rebels.

    It's looking more promising so far.
    "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake."
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  25. #115

    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    I just started BI myself this past week, and unfortunately will have to wait until after my graphic card gets back from warranty service to continue. So, I'm just JONESIN' reading alls of these posts! But I digress...

    Anyway, I left off during my second attempt at a Frankish empire. I horded right off the bat and plowed through Gaul, finally settling in at the middle one of the three conditional provinces. This may have been a mistake, but I'm going try to salvage the game anyway.

    My problem is that I'm losing money right and left. I hold two adjacent provinces right now. I have a port. The saxons are expanding southward. WRE are coming in from Spain and from Arles. So, I'm thinking of hording again. But, before I do that, are there some ways to salvage a bleeding economy that might allow me to stay on the normal conquest track? I'm losing about 400-600 denarii per turn, and most of it seems to be bleeding out of the capital.

    So what econonomic things can I do to correct this? I had a better time managing the economy in RTW.

  26. #116
    War Monger Member dacdac's Avatar
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    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    it is so hard for me to turn them into Cristains. They keep revolting and there doesn't seem to be a good time to change it from paganism
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  27. #117
    Member Member Claudius the God's Avatar
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    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    of the five barbarian factions in that region (alemanni, Franks, Lombardii, burgundii, saxons) - only the Franks can build those level 3 roads (highways?)... and later in the game they have access to Onagers (some other barbarian factions do too, but not all)

  28. #118

    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    ya, the franks are one of my favourite campaigns ever, great units, highways, onagers, they are just such a fun campaign to play.

  29. #119

    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    my most recent frank campaign, the tribe horded on turn 1 and has now migrated to asia minor. forget all about those objectives, i think the steppes will look nicer with decent roads! east romans don't seem to handle flying columns of heavy lancers so well....
    so far Sinone is the capital, and Caesarea secured. the challange is to hurt the ERE economy so badly they can't keep building new armies, and are forced into a ceasefire.
    the frank combination of civilized and barbaric is fun to play, i mean to find out how to mod the game to do something similar with the lombards or the sarmatians.
    But vain the spear and vain the bow,
    They never can work War's overthrow;
    The hermit's prayer and the widow's tear
    Alone can free the world from fear
    (Blake)

  30. #120

    Default Re: Franks (BI faction)

    I never went that far east with the Franks....have you run into any Sassanids yet? They always beat the crap out of me with the ERE, but the Franks might be able to deal with them more effectively.

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