Saxons (BI faction)

[frogbeastegg]

Guide

[CountMRVHS]

I'm still playing my first BI campaign as the Saxons, M/M to get the feel of the game. Default unit sizes also.

The Saxons begin with one lone city, Vicus Saxones, near modern-day Denmark. Nearby is the thinly-stretched Western Roman Empire, Franks, Burgundii, and a very close Rebel town to the SE (Campus Chatti, I believe). Moving on this rebel town within the first couple turns is a good idea, as the Burgundii will likely move on it as well. You have to get there first.

Fortunately, in BI in general you start off with rather advanced facilities. It will take awhile to tech up to your killers: Chosen Axemen and Saxon Hearth Troops. For the first stage of the game you'll depend on Saxon Keels, Levy Spearmen, Hunters, and Saxon Sea Raiders.

Levy Spearmen are a little weaker than Keels but have a larger unit size and another neat attribute: they can throw a javelin before melee. In melee, both the Levy Spearmen and Keels are, well, spearmen, but I haven't had any problems with them: spears seem to stand up to all kinds of units better in BI. Hunters are your archer units, and they come in handy for obvious reasons. Sea Raiders are a lance-armed light cav unit; useful for flanking and rear charges. They can get into trouble though, so don't depend on them for too much. Remember: the Saxons are an infantry-heavy faction. Though they may look like Riders of Rohan, don't use 'em that way.

Once you have Campus Chatti under your belt, you need to decide where to head next. I try to make friends with my neighbouring barbarians. These alliances seem to work much better in BI than in RTW, where the Britons could NEVER stay allied with the Gauls or Germans, and vice versa. I have yet to be backstabbed by any of my barbarian allies so far.

Obviously, the Western Romans are your big adversary. This is where much of your lands will come from. The question is, do you conquer down the coast toward Brittany, or immediately set sail for England? In my campaign I opted for the latter (I was impatient to see if the Romano-British would appear), and I built the first boat I could make, trained up some Chosen Axemen and Hearth Troops (taking 7 turns), and sent my 23-year-old faction leader out to sea from Vicus Saxones.

Now, this is important: Rebel boats are thick as flies in the north sea/English Channel, and these pirates are *Very* dangerous. Especially when you face them in dinky little Boats. Halfway to England, my faction leader and all my bright, shiny new troops were sunk to the bottom of the sea.

So if you want to invade England quick, watch out for those pirates. March your army down the coast and send a boat to meet up with them to ferry them across the channel quickly. Even better, conquer the closest West Roman town to the SW (between Samarobriva and Vicus Saxones) and stage the conquest from there.

Although the WRE doesn't seem to have a large standing army, they do tend to bulk up their garrisons when feeling threatened. Once my Saxons took London (exterminated the extremely unhappy populace), I set my sights on Eburacum and started training some fresh troops. I also allied with the Celts in the hopes that they'd help me out. But the WRE quickly began training in Eburacum: they went from 1/4 of a stack to more than a full stack before I felt my troops could handle it. Quite the arms race! Expect to see the AI "bulk up" like that when it's afraid you'll assault its town.

By the time I sent my army north, there were numerous single-stack parties surrounding Eburacum and the woods nearby. I simply punched my way through these, forcing them to retreat, until I lured the WRE garrison out of town (the full stack showed up as a reinforcement army when I attacked one of the tiny parties). Chosen Axemen and Hearth Troops against Foederati and Limitanes(sp.) is basically no contest. I was able to crush the army and move into town.

Of course (SPOILER ALERT! SPOILER ALERT!)


this is the point at which the Romano-British faction emerges. When Eburacum fell, a blue stack appeared halfway between that and Londinium. I was expecting a bit more, and probably will see more units at a higher difficult level, but these were enough to cause me a headache. My only general in Britain was in just-conquered Eburacum, which had hardly any troop facilities. The small garrison I'd left in Londinium was led by a captain. Londinium fell when the Romano-British assaulted it 2 turns later. Watch out for these guys: they've got some nice heavy infantry and usually quite a few warlord-type cav that can give your footmen a headache. Fortunately I was able to retake Londinium with my general and wipe out the faction next turn.

At this point you'll be wondering: should I continue pushing north/west and wipe out the Celts, or drive south and finish off the WRE? The Saxons need to hold Vicus Saxones, Londinium, and Samarobriva in order to win; but they also need 18 provinces. Since you're already at war with the WRE, it might be a good time to consolidate the lands in France before other barbarians get greedy.

In my game, I fussed around a bit too much and before I knew it the Goths and Vandals had relocated to southern France, and the Sarmatians were knocking on the Franks' door. Those hordes can move! So be ready for it and try to grab as much land as you can before they show up.

Sometimes you'll get lucky. I had a general with a half-stack parked on the mainland, waiting to ambush for several turns, when I noticed that the WRE had left Colonia Agrippina COMPLETELY abandoned! I took my hidden army and was able to march it in through the gates and take the town without a fight.

Unless you want to fight your fellow barbarians, you'll probably be taking over much of France and a bit extra in order to get your 18 provinces. Even if you act fast, you'll likely be at war with more than just the WRE to do this. That's where I am in my game now: I grabbed 4 towns off the WRE on the mainland, but the rest of Gaul is split between the Goths, Vandals, and who knows who else. My endgame scenario, once I take out the Celts, will involve fighting lots of separate factions and dealing with hordes in my push to northern Italy. Not the cleanest way to do it, but you don't have much choice.....

Will write more when I finish. Just wanted to get things kick-started!

CountMRVHS

[afrit]

Just finished my first BI campaign with Saxons on Med/Med

I agree with CountMRVHS. Warning: some spoilers below (but, hey , why are you reading the guide then?).

Overall Strategy:
You objective is to get 18 provinces including: Vicus Saxonii (capital), Samarobriva and Londinium.

As CountMRVHS put it, the WRE is the main enemy. They hold 2 target provinces and have lots of territory. Because of their size, I initially allied with them, but ended up being betrayed very early (Winter 369 AD). So prepare for that. Luckily, they have so many problems that once you weather their initial armies, they will have trouble reinforcing.

The settled barbarians to the east and south (Burgundians, franks, alemanni , lombards) can be a nuisance. My strategy was to keep them at bay but not expand against them so as to concentrate against WRE. This worked fine. I managed to deter the Burgundians from declaring war by keeping a strong garrison in Campus Chatti. The franks attacked me regardless and were easy to beat. The Alemanni allied with me for almost the entire game. When I got to 15 provinces, I finally attacked east to get the last 3 provinces.

The Romano-British will emerge when you capture both Eburacum and Londinium. So when you land in Britain, take lots of force with you unless you are willing to lose Londinium (I took my faction heir with a full stack and did fine). The Romano-british on Med/Med was a single full stack.

The Celts left me alone, but I attacked them to take their 2 provinces.

Other enemies you can run into are the hordes of barbarians fleeing West. To avoid them expand west into France, and not south or east. France has a lots of rich provinces that are easy prey. BUT, if you delay, hordes may get there first. In the last 3 turns of my game (AD 290-292) southern France was awash with Sarmatian and Hunnic hordes. Luckily I eked out victory before they assaulted my settlements.

The pirates in the North sea are powerful. I lost many naval battles before subduing them. Also, the WRE will mount a naval war if challenged, so don't send ships solo in the North sea.

Economy:
The network of maritimie provinces around the North Sea can generate quite a bit of trade. Give priority to ports and make sure pirates don't blockade you.
Plunder from sacking the cities of the WRE was a big source of income too.

Units:
I found the archers ("Hunters") quite useful against the romans . You can get them from level 1 range and then upgrade with temples. The Saxon Spearmen are (I think) a steal: they are a large unit (120 men on Large size), they hold well against cavalry, they have pila (javelins) and are cheap and obtainable on level one. The Raiders light cav rounds the lineup. I did not feel the higher units were really that useful.


A lot of the above will probably not apply on higher levels (I suspect that the Burgundians will not be deterrable on higher difficulty and you would therefore end up with a 2 front war from the get go).

[gmjapan]

I grabbed the two rebel towns Campus Chatti and the other to the south west of your capital. Move fast to them, the garrisons are easy to beat with your starting general and couple of spearmen and a couple of hunters.

I went for stables in my capital to give me simple (i.e. weak as paper) cavalry to put in my armies. I think this was a good move as latter on I did a lot of defending and a couple of cav units give you alot of flexibility on the field.

While Chatti gives you a nicer looking eastern border and some breathing space, the other rebel town can build a port and I think that is far more important for what the Saxons will be getting up to. But get them both anyway and you have a more stable "empire". They are an excellent buffer to your capital.

I managed to get alliances with everyone around straight off the bat, Burgundii, franks, WRE etc but the WRE backstabbed me really early, about a turn after I beat them to the rebel town South West of my capital in fact.

But if you are going to be at war with them anyway, I feel better if they start it.

Hunters and basic spearmen will help you hold onto your three towns from the WRE at the start, if you get too many fancy units for defence you will be in trouble trying to repair them between attacks.

You start with 3 boats in the North Sea and if Pirates dont get them first (!), build two strongish, mixed armies (not necessarily maxed!) and go "invent" the Romano British! You start with alot of money and I used this to fund the expitionary force. I didnt have to build more boats to do this but in retrospect that was playing with fire! With a mix army, use your spearmen to hold and work around to the flanks with cav or whatever you have available. Units hold alot longer and as such the battles a more enjoyable.

I had a terrible time with the Vandals later (this was my first time) but hey, wheres the fun if its too easy right!

[SpencerH]

So far I've found the biggest problem with the Saxons to be the lack of funds. My game has become one of money management rather than anything else. It reminds me very much of my Brit campaign in RTW i.e. not very much fun.

Strategically, I've had to expand southward against the Franks, Vandals, and WRE (since they attacked me and I limit myself to only attacking when attacked first) rather than the more economically viable move across the coast and Britain (that have ports). I've been in a constant war with the Goths and WRE despite obliterating their invading forces time and time again but because of the limitations of funds I cant build enough forces to protect my lands from the west and advance against two large empires in the south and east. As with the Brits I expect that the balance will eventually tip and from there it will be all easy-going afterwards.

Tactically, I tend to build elite units rather than peasants with sticks and have slaughtered every army (Romans, Goths, Vandals, Franks) I've fought using upgraded hunters (archers) and cavalry (with a few inf units).

Standing enemy with shields are well protected from arrows but not moving ones. Threaten their flanks with cav to make em re-position then pepper-em with arrows. Alternatively, sting em with arrows then skirmish backwards if they chase then hit em from the flanks with cav. Dont send cav into Gothic spears unless they are disorganized (they seem to form a schiltron-type hedgehog defense if given time) and/or flanked.

[McDoogle]

Well, you guys have had a very different start then i did. I stayed where i was for several turns and built up my barracks so i oculd produced saxon kneels. Very interesting units, i then built stables and thus sea raiders. a wonderful combo.

I took the town south east in the first few turns so i could get some income. I then made an allaince with everyone i could find, then i started to build a small navy to help protect my ports from pirates. The town you all claimed southwest, that caused you a war with the WRE is very interesting. I simply watched it, the romans sent TWO armies which were BOTH beaten by the rebels. Then the frankk (my allies) thought they would have a crack at it, they failed.

so i decided that maybe if no one else can do it i should, so i built an army. i was one move from getting there. when another frank army (much larger) appeared. i choose to attack, stupidly i thought that if I had control of the town centre then i would own the city, however it still depends on who has the majority of the troops at the end of the day, and seeing as i killed 400 rebels with 200 men and had to help the franks beat off 120 rebels. I was rather annoyed.

naturally i left it for a few rounds and then cancelled my alliance and then took the town for myself. The romans never once lifted a finger against me, so i waited until their armies were out of the city just near there, and i the cancelled and then took it and sacked it. got 10000 out of it :D

i then took and sacked the capital of the lombards, however i have no garrison there and the town refuses to revolt :P. the lombards even asked for a cease fire. i plan on doing the same to the burgundians. it gains you alot of money, which u need to continue building your capital.

i am not sure if i will head from britian, it seems like to much bother at the moment. i plan on taking over the franks lands and hunting them down, i will not forgive them for taking my city!

about to get saxon hearths hope they are good! i will post more when i do more.. otherwise saxons are heaps of fun.

oh dont let the ai do your taxes! do em yourself!

[RBeschizza]

I'm in the middle of a great game with the Saxons. I'm playing on hard/hard and forcing myself to suck it up when things go awry.

I had a storming first few turns, taking the nearby rebel camps and sweeping through the WRE's British possessions, wiping out the Romano-British a turn after they appeared!

I thought I had it made, that it was just a matter of consolidating. Then, within a couple of turns, almost everyone turned against me: the Burgundians attacked in the east, the Franks from the south, and the Celts came barging south with a full stack containing those annoying berserkers.

Every city except home under siege with near-full stacks! I found myself being slowly crushed -- I'd win a battle, then lose a battle, win and lose ... And decided to throw everything I had into building a single full-sized army with good units.

So, I lost all of Britain to the Celts, and everything else for that matter, and was reduced to the home city. But, I had an army in it comprising mainly of Heath Soldiers, Noble Cavalry, Axe heavies and so on.

Another ten years later, I have to deal with a different annoyance: why won't my general, after a twenty victories and capturing five cities, get more than 1 command star? :-)

[The Stranger]

someone cares to the BI factions tactics in my Tactics guide in the colloseum.

[teja]

someone cares to the BI factions tactics in my Tactics guide in the colloseum.

Junior members as I am are not allowed to post there. It's impossible for me to come to a point when not allowed to comment. That's why I am in this part of the forum only.
It would have been great if you had post the link to your thread here, but ty for the info.

[McDoogle]

Stranger that really made no sense!

Why post in other forums if anyone wants to post in your forums. Sorry mate but we are here for a reason.

Anyways, there is on one of those split screen things while loading etc, a group of men in HORNED HELMETS with axes and shields destroying a villiage.

I have search through the custom battle thing and havnt been able to find these units. Does anyone have any ideas as to who they are and who they belong to?

[YAKOBU]

Hi everyone

Just a quick update, on my 3rd attempt I eventually succeeded.

As usual I allied with as many other barbarians as possible and got trade rights where able. I took the 2 close rebel settlements and in 368AD my leader set off to Rome with 3 levy spears, 1 saxon keel, 3 hunters, 2 saxon sea raiders and 3 mercenaries. Along the way he exterminated and pillaged all the WRE settlements. After 6 years he had exterminated and pillaged the last settlement at the foot of Italy and died in his sleep. The treasury after all this stood at £95,696 and the remainder of his army was disbanded. Then I expanded outwards from my capital and took a further 5 settlements. Building up these settlements quickly whittled away my finances and I found it difficult to keep many troops in the field. I then sent what troops I could afford over to take Londinium and the rest of the British Isles. I think Londinium potentially makes or breaks the Saxon campaign. With this settlement added I was going from breaking even to thousands of profit every turn. Once I had built up another couple of armies I re-took Italy and a couple of other settlements to get the 18 needed for victory.

This game was played on M/M and I didn't use peasants or exchange trade etc for cash. These are standard rules for me which make the game slightly harder.

My summary is brief and I did lose settlements along the way both to the hordes and the romans. My alliances with the barbarians stayed strong throughout the game. My last years were spent auto-resolving battles to speed up the finish and I felt I lost more troops than I would have otherwise lost.

I think now I will start a ERE campaign with a few more iron-man rules.

[horee6]

Hi guys!

Finished the first game with the saxons (H/H huge units), and I had very good experiences.
Advantages:
1. Very strong infantry (hearth troops, chosen axeman) + exp bonus of advanced barracks
2. Lucrative North Sea trade
3. Temples of Wotan +3 exp bonus

Disadvantages:
1. Lack of roads
2. Cavalry

At the start I planned the borders of my future empire, and I decided to take th British Isles, Gaul, Northern Italy, and some German territory along the Rhein. I thought my cheif enemy would be the WRE.

1. Phase - Getting strong on the mainland

I've taken Campus Frisii and Campus Chattii and started building alliances with the other barbarians (franks, burgundi, lombardi). Soon the WRE attacked me at Campus Frisii, so I decided to launch an attack and take Colonia Agrippina, Augusta Treverorum and Sambarovriva. Citizens got exterminated, roman buildings razed, so I had perfect loyality and enough money to build a second army. My eastern borders were relatively safe, because of my allies Avaricum belonged to the rebels I only had to worry about an attack from the south across the Alps, so I placed my first army at the bridge south of Augusta Treverorum.

2. Phase - conquering Britain

I built a second army (keels and hunters) and occupied Londinium, and built up a small garrison of peasants to keep loyality. I left the small Eburacum garrison intact to avoid the Romano British, and sailed west to take Tara. Rebuilt my army trained the garrison, and aimed Dal Raida. I was quite archer-heavy with this army so it was easy to kill the unarmored berserkers, and my general and the keels dealt with the rest. During the invasion in Britain the mainland was quite peaceful. The franks lost their capital to the alemanni, but luckily they didn't horde, because they had occupied another easter province (C. Macromanni???) before. The Sarmatian Horde showed up in southern Gaul, and took Burdigala and Avaricum. No sign of the WRE yet. The North Sea trade wasn't too lucrative yet, but I managed to build a 3rd army, mostly heart troops and chosen axeman. Now I was ready to take Eburacum and fight the Romano-British. After this I crossed the Channel and left a small army in Britain.

3. Phase - The Hordes

After bringing back my military on the mainland I decided to go offensive. Alemanni were not my allies so I destroyed them taking Vicus Frankii and Vicus Alemanni. I also destroyed the Sarmatians in Gaul, so I started to think, victory was near at hand. I planned to conquer 4 more territories, Arles and Massila from the western front, and Augusta Vindelicorum and Mediolandium from the north. Everything gone perfect, until the vast Hunnic Horde appeared in northern Italy and southern Gaul, the Slavs emerged and turned my frankish allies into horde and the Roxolani and the Vandals also showed up behind the Huns. The burgundi also betrayed me and started to send forces against Vicus Chattii and Vicus Saxoni. By this time I had a nice trade income on the North Sea, some of my settlments were huge cities with every building so I was the ideal target of those hordes. My military was concentrated around Burdigalia, and I had an army north of the Alps. Thing turned very nasty in few years. I couldn't stop the franks in Germany, but luckily the went west and besieged Avaricum. I quickly produced some troops in my northern provinces and repelled the burgundians, and built forts on the borders. I split my main army and one full stack was defending in southern Gaul against the hordes and the WRE, who were getting strong in Spain, and the other stack went north and defeated the franks.

4. Phase - Finale

After some huge battles against the hordes I succeeded to brake the Huns, Franks and the Vandals, so I started to control the situation. Put forts on the Passes of the Pyrenees stopping the WRE and hunted down the Horde generals. The Sassanids showed up in C. Macromanni and sent some armies against my eastern cities, their heavy cavalry was no match to my chosen axemen and hearth troops. I rebuilt my military and took the two provinces in southern Gaul, and crossed the Alps from the north and took Mediolandium. I had some difficulties here, because the WRE seemed to remain strong in Italy and the lombardi horde also showed up, but my soldiers were veterans of many battles with superior equipment so I finally got my last province here.

Summary:

Moving peasant from one city to another I managed to build huge cities everywhere except for Dal Raida and Tara.
By the end of the game I had to move my capital to Avaricum, because I couldn't handle the population neither here nor in Burdigalia.
The North Sea trade is awesome. Londonium brought me more than 4K per turn and the other cities of the English Channel were also wealhty.
Saxons can produce exp 4 infantry in cities with Wotan and highest level barracks. Silver chevron chosen axemen and hearth troops kick ass.
Hunters produced in city with Uli AND retrained in city with Wotan also incredible.
In my game I had very little contact with the WRE, and neither of my generals could achieve high value in the eagle trait.
Saxon family members are not for governing, but to lead armies. They have low management and influence, and also tend to start with low command, but they most likely to develop traits like berserker, ambusher and infantry commander, which makes them deadly.

P.S.

Sorry for my bad english!

[omg3969]

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[kingman]

which the Romano-British faction emerges. When Eburacum fell, a blue stack appeared halfway between that and Londinium. I was expecting a bit more, and probably will see more units at a higher difficult level, but these were enough to cause me a headache. My only general in Britain was in just-conquered Eburacum, which had hardly any troop facilities. The small garrison I'd left in Londinium was led by a captain. Londinium fell when the Romano-British assaulted it 2 turns later. Watch out for these guys: they've got some nice heavy infantry and usually quite a few warlord-type cav that can give your footmen a headache. Fortunately I was able to retake Londinium with my general and wipe out the faction next turn.

At this point you'll be wondering: should I continue pushing north/west and wipe out the Celts, or drive south and finish off the WRE? The Saxons need to hold Vicus Saxones, Londinium, and Samarobriva in order to win; but they also need 18 provinces. Since you're already at war with the WRE, it might be a good time to consolidate the lands in France before other barbarians get greedy.