MTW: Subterfuge Guide

**sbroadbent** · 10-02-2005, 23:21

Note: This is for Medieval: Total War (just to make things clear).

Subterfuge being the actions of the various agents (assassins, spies, priests, princesses, etc) is an interesting element in the game if used right. Based on these forums as well as the Faqs and Guides section there doesn't seem to be a particular guide that delves deep within the mechanics of what makes the agents tick.

One of the most difficult elements is trying to increase the Valour rating of your various units. In addition, it's difficult trying to identify when an assassin will be able to get through the border forts, and then strike their intended target (the only safe way to raise assassins is ensure that their target stays within your territories and simply train masses of them to ensure atleast one gets through.

So, has anyone done any work on something like this. I might give it a go. Each agent would be detailed in the following manner:

1.Missions (and how to activate them)
2.How to increase Valour
3.Chances of success (against various targets)

I'll see what I can start. Any suggestions on what else should be in the guide?

**ichi** · 10-03-2005, 05:16

Great idea. One thing to include would be a list of hero agents.

There are heroes in the game that appear for each faction in certain year. Folks might miss them easily, and could probably benefit from a listing. For example "Guy of Gisbourne" appears for the English as an assassin in 1190, he allegedly was the Sheriff of Nottingham's sidekick! and starts with high stats.

ichi

**Abdel Hakam** · 10-04-2005, 12:32

I am a new player on my first campaign, and have had no luck with any agents other than my clerics. And even the clerics only work for me in a massive number just to help prevent revolts.

I am planning on making some new assasins in Syria, which apparently produces especially good assasins. So far, the agents I've used are a bit inept. My empire has expanded almost to what I hoped for, so I would ideally handle aggressive nations using subterfuge rather than invasions at this point.

I think many people would appreciate any light being shed on this subject.

**Mouzafphaerre** · 10-04-2005, 12:36

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Which faction are you playing? I assume myself a good user of subterfuge units.
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**Abdel Hakam** · 10-04-2005, 13:12

Hello again Mouzaphaerre. I am playing as the Egyptians. I am recovering from a not so great begining but have a decent position, military, and economy now. My army is really overstretched however, handling Crusaders, Christian Almohad-Rebels, and the Golden Hoard who have just arrived. I have a special reserve of three carefully composed armies to defend against the Mongols, but any help with agents could make a big difference. Thanks very much!

And Ramadan Mubarak if anyone is participating, and even for those who aren't!

**sbroadbent** · 10-04-2005, 15:32

Originally Posted by Abdel Hakam

Hello again Mouzaphaerre. I am playing as the Egyptians. I am recovering from a not so great begining but have a decent position, military, and economy now. My army is really overstretched however, handling Crusaders, Christian Almohad-Rebels, and the Golden Hoard who have just arrived. I have a special reserve of three carefully composed armies to defend against the Mongols, but any help with agents could make a big difference. Thanks very much!

And Ramadan Mubarak if anyone is participating, and even for those who aren't!

The best way to level up your spies and assassins mostly relies on factions sending loads of assassins and spies your way. All you need to do is leave a few spies and assassins in each of the hot territories, and (depending on how many get sent your way) they level up extremely quickly. I'm currently in 1310 playing the Sicilians. I crusaded all over the crusade objectives and have held them starting in 1150 with the last captured (unfortunately) in 1206. Let's just say I've had a huge number of assassins come my way. Particularly Naples which I've held since the start. There were turns where I got 6-8 assassins/spies in Naples on a consistent regular basis. Before I knew it, my assassins and spies were peaking level 5 (and I mostly had only the first valor upgrade (for assassins). Naples was a sweet training ground.

I currently have a 7 Valor a 6 Valor, and two 5 Valor Spies, along with four 5 Valor Assassins all guarding my important provinces. Only a few of the surviving assassins I've actually used, the others that went on missions eventually met their fate. I believe that having assassins and spies work better than border forts in catching the stealth characters. At the very least you benefit much more by having these agents in your province by the simple fact that you just place them and if someone comes along, they're there to take them out.

It is important to note that I modded my game. I removed the Watchtower and Borderforts from the building file, and much prefer it this way. It changes the game so slightly, and as a result, it's almost a necessity to get the assassins and spies out. I got really annoyed by the fact that if an assassin or spy wandered into a province with a border fort after you assign him to a mission, he's basically dead. If you're targetting enemy agents in your provinces, you have to take a guess on whether the target will move to a different province or stay there. The coin flip nature of this made agents worth more hassle than they were worth. It's important to note that removing the border forts only removed the guaranteed death to your stealth agents. It won't always be guaranteed that your opponent won't always have a similar agent of his own.

Removing the Watch tower and Border forts do have an important consequence. Watchtowers add 20 points to the Loyalty, while borderforts add a further 30 points. What this means is that you're not going to be able to rely on these to boost your loyalty levels (therefore revolts are much more common, which may very well work towards your advantage, as you can quickly seize a potentially profitable target like Venice or Constantinople ;) if the province changes hands too often and the people just don't like it). This means that it will take more time (and troops to build and maintain the people's loyalty).

In addition to removing the watch towers and border forts, I adjusted the Tavern and Brothel tree so that you only need a fort to start the Tavern tree and you can start the Brothel tree at Keep level instead of Keep and Castle. The final adjustment was I halved the time to build these to 2 years per Tavern upgrade and 3 years per Brothel upgrade (compared to 4 years for Tavern and 6 years for Brothel). I might double the cost though, just to make them more difficult to build. I did this primarily to allow the units to get into the game faster.

What is important is that the Brothel levels actually give you 10 points to happiness per upgrade. I decided since the towers were gone to also give the Tavern tree a small happiness boost. Taverns now give the small benefit of 5 per upgrade.

With that said, it was incredibly fun sending my early assassins off and assassinating random characters off at a moment's notice. Princesses, Generals, Emissaries, priests, you name it, they killed it. None were sacred. That of course initiated the AI to build their own. Remember, the AI likes to use assassins against you (particularly at higher difficulties), and as you recall above, I mentioned I counted 8 enemy assassins killed in Naples in one year. The great thing was that these were coming from different sources (not all from the same faction).

I still lose generals every once in a while, mostly because I get lazy and forget to bring along a spy or assassin on military expeditions. Some generals do manage to evade the attack and kill the would be assassin.

The best part about this whole thing is that there were a few decades where someone was assassinating the Pope every turn ;) I even took my shot at him when he threatened to excom me. By 5V assassin (50% chance succeeded brilliantly).

That was a little longer than I intended, but here is a bit more. Emissaries are one of your important friends. If you have the available cash, send an emissary out to find a general with low loyalty. Bribe the general, and for the cash you spend you benefit a couple ways. First is that you gain additional troops (always a positive), the second is that you deprive your opponents of those troops. The third (and best part) is if you bribe a garrison army, you'll gain control of the province and no buildings will get destroyed. That is right. Here is an incredibly useful strategy called the Bribery Blitzkrieg.

Build up a large force (3-4 legions/stacks) and move them into an enemy territory. Bring along your emissary and if your troops overwhelmingly outnumber your opponents they'll likely flee leaving a small garrison behind. Bribe the garrison and on the next turn they become immediately available. Normally it takes a turn after a successful bribe before you gain control of the general that you bribed, but a garrison unit is available immediate. In addition, because it is a garrison army, there will be a small number available, and thus it won't cost very much. Just hope the Faction Leader, Heir or another high loyalty general isn't in there...

The advantage of this tactic is that it is quick (turnaround time of 1 province taken per 2 years/turns), low casualty rate (you're forcing your enemies out of the province and spending a minimal amount of time in a siege), and the buildings left behind are untouched. You'll gain income from all the new provinces which should help with offsetting the bribe costs. Because it's very quick, you can sweep through a region (leaving enough troops to eliminate the chances of a revolt... you could even use the bribed troops for this purpose).

A warning before you start bribing everyone. Bribing is the same as declaring war on a faction, so be prepared to go to war with the target faction. Because of this, if you take a province through Bribery, it still counts as Conquest for the purposes of Glorious Achievements, simply because you're gaining new territory

Ok, I think I'm done.

No, really, I should be done....

Yes, I really am done now...

**Mouzafphaerre** · 10-04-2005, 17:59

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Ramadan mubarek!

Use your high valour religious agents to break the balance in Christian/Pagan enemy lands, and spies to foster unrest in Muslim ones. It will help a great deal until they build up religious infrastructure. Assasinate enemy clerics in your provinces and always build watch towers and border forts.
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**Martok** · 01-15-2008, 17:00

Stickied.

**King Kurt** · 01-16-2008, 10:11

I am having problems finding the guide - when I follow the link the site is unavailable - any chance of it being put within the forum itself?

**dimitrios the samian** · 01-16-2008, 10:42

Well done Martok & Mouza ...

**Mouzafphaerre** · 01-16-2008, 11:26

Originally Posted by dimitrios the samian

Well done Martok & Mouza ...

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It's Mithrandir who moved it here from the EH and Martok who made it sticky.

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**Martok** · 01-17-2008, 06:28

Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre

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It's Mithrandir who moved it here from the EH and Martok who made it sticky.

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But unless I'm greatly mistaken, it was you, my friend, that thought to ask Mithrandir to move it here in the first place. So thanks are still in order.